Some of the aove speak to the Rapture as a real event which will happen. Others indicate the author believed the removal would happen before the Wrath of God is poured out ... and all seven years of the Tribulation are the judgments being poured out since it is the Lamb in Heaven opening the seals.
Now I would ask you this: Who are they who are singing, 'for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;?' Rev 5
The Shepherd of Hermas (95-150)
Victorinus ( Well known by 270 and died in 303 A.D.)
Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373)>br?
Drop all the names you like, absent their actual quotes, it’s meaningless.
I NEVER said the rapture isn’t real or wouldn’t happen.
I ALSO NEVER said it wouldn’t happen before the outpouring of God’s wrath.
What I have CONSISTENTLY maintained is that neither you, nor I, nor any others are free to define “wrath” as other than Jesus defined it in his Revelation to John wherein “wrath” is clearly narrowed — by literal NAME — to the Seven “Bowls of Wrath” (or Vials, if you prefer). NONE of the Seal judgments or Trumpet Judgments are so-designates; ONLY the seven Bowls, and we oughta take the utterly un-subtle hint, and get in step with Jesus.
For the record, I’d say HKMk23 is blatantly dishonest - possibly a liar.
He has been give enough Biblical material. He even pinged me to be on My End Times Ping List which I gladly obliged only to revert to nefarious postings and trolling.
I ignore the dude now.
Papias didn’t write about a pre tribulation rapture.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0125.htm
Absolutely nothing. Where did you get that idea from? Could you point out where exactly you believe Papias wrote anything about the pre tribulation rapture?
Here are all the writings of Papias
Ì But I shall not be unwilling to put down, along with my interpretations, whatsoever instructions I received with care at any time from the elders, and stored up with care in my memory, assuring you at the same time of their truth. For I did not, like the multitude, take pleasure in those who spoke much, but in those who taught the truth; nor in those who related strange commandments, but in those who rehearsed the commandments given by the Lord to faith, and proceeding from truth itself. If, then, any one who had attended on the elders came, I asked minutely after their sayings — what Andrew or Peter said, or what was said by Philip, or by Thomas, or by James, or by John, or by Matthew, or by any other of the Lord’s disciples: which things Aristion and the presbyter John, the disciples of the Lord, say. For I imagined that what was to be got from books was not so profitable to me as what came from the living and abiding voice
II
[The early Christians] called those who practised a godly guilelessness, children, [as is stated by Papias in the first book of the Lord’s Expositions, and by Clemens Alexandrinus in his Pædagogue.]
III
Judas walked about in this world a sad example of impiety; for his body having swollen to such an extent that he could not pass where a chariot could pass easily, he was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out.
IV
As the elders who saw John the disciple of the Lord remembered that they had heard from him how the Lord taught in regard to those times, and said]: The days will come in which vines shall grow, having each ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in every one of the shoots ten thousand clusters, and on every one of the clusters ten thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed will give five-and-twenty metretes of wine. And when any one of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, ‘I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me.’ In like manner, [He said] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear would have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds of clear, pure, fine flour; and that apples, and seeds, and grass would produce in similar proportions; and that all animals, feeding then only on the productions of the earth, would become peaceable and harmonious, and be in perfect subjection to man.
V
As the presbyters say, then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that on this account the Lord said, In my Father’s house are many mansions: John 14:2 for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place, even as His word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each one is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch Matthew 22:10 in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; and that, moreover, they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father; and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:25-26 For in the times of the kingdom the just man who is on the earth shall forget to die. But when He says all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted which did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
VI
Matthew put together the oracles [of the Lord] in the Hebrew language, and each one interpreted them as best he could. [The same person uses proofs from the First Epistle of John, and from the Epistle of Peter in like manner. And he also gives another story of a woman who was accused of many sins before the Lord, which is to be found in the Gospel according to the Hebrews.]
VII
Papias thus speaks, word for word: To some of them [angels] He gave dominion over the arrangement of the world, and He commissioned them to exercise their dominion well. And he says, immediately after this: but it happened that their arrangement came to nothing.
VIII
With regard to the inspiration of the book (Revelation), we deem it superfluous to add another word; for the blessed Gregory Theologus and Cyril, and even men of still older date, Papias, Irenæus, Methodius, and Hippolytus, bore entirely satisfactory testimony to it.
IX
Taking occasion from Papias of Hierapolis, the illustrious, a disciple of the apostle who leaned on the bosom of Christ, and Clemens, and Pantænus the priest of [the Church] of the Alexandrians, and the wise Ammonius, the ancient and first expositors, who agreed with each other, who understood the work of the six days as referring to Christ and the whole Church.
X
(1.) Mary the mother of the Lord; (2.) Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphæus, who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus, and of one Joseph; (3.) Mary Salome, wife of Zebedee, mother of John the evangelist and James; (4.) Mary Magdalene. These four are found in the Gospel. James and Judas and Joseph were sons of an aunt (2) of the Lord’s. James also and John were sons of another aunt (3) of the Lord’s. Mary (2), mother of James the Less and Joseph, wife of Alphæus was the sister of Mary the mother of the Lord, whom John names of Cleophas, either from her father or from the family of the clan, or for some other reason. Mary Salome (3) is called Salome either from her husband or her village. Some affirm that she is the same as Mary of Cleophas, because she had two husbands.
Absolutely nothing about a pre tribulation rapture.
Where did you get that papias supported the 19th century philosophy of the pre tribulation rapture?
Clement wrote nothing on a pre tribulation rapture
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm
Could you cite where you allege he wrote about it?
Where do you find the pre-tribulation rapture in “The Sherpherd of Hermas (96-150)”??
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0201.htm
Please could you reference where exactly you see a reference in the text to the 19th century philosophy of the pre-tribulation rapture?
Where do you find the pre-tribulation rapture in “The Didache”??
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm
The Didache is clear on the practices of first century Christians like
Chapter 8 - fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday).
Chapter 9 - Now concerning the Thanksgiving (Eucharist), thus give thanks. First, concerning the cup: We thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of David Your servant, which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory forever. And concerning the broken bread: We thank You, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory forever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Your Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Your kingdom; for Yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ forever. But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs. Matthew 7:6
Chapter 14 -
But every Lord’s day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure
But nothing about a pre-tribulation rapture. Where do you read that in the Didache?