Bookmark.
Nxt he’ll ditch the resurrection and the Incarnation. Just yesterday a freeper reminded me of the key to determining the spirit of antichrist. Denial of Jesus being God in the Flesh.
Isn’t Jesus the Word of God?
And the Bible is kind of the Word of God, too.
The Scriptures that the Christ referred to was the Septuagint, the 46 books of the old testament.
Jesus came to fulfill ie complete these 46 books.
God doesn’t have grandchildren. You don’t become a child of God because your dad was a rock solid preacher.
Poor Charles Stanley and other preachers who have misplaced “in the ministry” sons and daughters.
Andy Stanley is a NUT and is the antithesis of Charles Stanley.
God sent Charles Stanley to me (over the radio) when I was newly saved and facing the deaths of my mother and very best friend.
I LOVE Charles Stanley and I hate what his wicked son is doing to his name.
This passage states the core thesis.
Our experience of the Bible (opening it and reading it) is but a subset of our overall experience in life.
When I open my Bible and read it, how can I be sure that my eyes aren't deceiving me? How can I be sure that some devil isn't interfering with my visual perception of the printed words on the paper?
The author states that the devil can "lead us astray" and interfere with our "experience" of the world. If the author is correct, then the devil could just as easily "mess" with our experience of the Bible.
It is not possible to consistently admonish, "Don't believe the evidence of your eyes! The devil may have misled you!" and then to assert "Believe what you read in the Bible!"
Regards,
“Do you believe the Bible is the infallible and inerrant Word of God?”
The problem with that statenent is the phrasing “the Bible”. It assumes there is one infallible and inerrant translation.
King James?? Oh but wait, the Dead Sea scrolls pointed out errors in translation.
Plus if you get 500 Bible scholars in a room they will sware on a 5 foot high stack of Bibles that their interpretation of what some verse or series of verses means is the correct meaning and the other 499 guys are wrong.
“There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down, I suppose the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.”
— St. John, The Beloved, from his Gospel, Ch. 21, v.25
Jesus, teaching in the Upper Room about the Holy Spirit said, “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you.” (John 14:26); and, again, “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own authority, but will speak whatever he hears, and will tell you what is to come. He will glorify me, because he will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; that is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you.” (John 16:13-15)
SINCE, by the personal testimony of one of the Original Twelve, the text of Scripture contains but a fragment of all the words and works of Jesus, is the Holy Spirit, therefore, LIMITED to reminding us ONLY of what got written down?? That’s NOT what Jesus said; that’s ABSURD!! Jesus said the Holy Spirit would guide us “into ALL Truth,” “teach [us] everything,” and “cause [us] to remember EVERYTHING” Jesus said; which necessarily INCLUDES the things he said that aren’t written down. Or are they not part of “all Truth?” ABSOLUTELY they are, and the Holy Spirit will speak to us concerning these things, also.
Again, recall how Jesus admonished the Scribes and teachers of The Law saying, “You study the scriptures thoroughly because you think in them you possess eternal life, and it is these same scriptures that testify about me, but you are not willing to come to me so that you may have life.” (John 5:39-40)
Does the text give life, or is life found only in The One of Whom the text speaks? THEREFORE Jesus is MORE than, GREATER than, SUPERIOR TO, and MASTER of the text.
Even the most casual student of the Bible will soon discover the reality that there is PLENTY that we are not told. Daniel is denied further revelation in Daniel 12; John the Revelator is told NOT to write what The Seven Thunders spoke, we are heading for eternity, and there’s VERY little written about what eternal life will be like beyond the emergence of The New Heavens and The New Earth. And St. Paul affirmed to the church at Corinth, “Eye has not seen, nor has any ear heard, nor has it entered into the mind of man what God has prepared for those who love Him.” (I Cor. 2:9)
And yet, all of these things are known to Jesus; all the things that Scripture DOES NOT say; he knows. The text tantalizes us with the promise that, “Of His Kingdom, and of its increase, there SHALL BE NO END.”
CLEARLY Jesus VASTLY EXCEEDS the bounds of the text, and not only that, but the extent, power, might, and glory of His eternal Kingdom cannot even be encompassed within its pages.
The Bible is from God, for humanity, in this age, that we may know enough to come to Him in repentance, to receive the forgiveness He wrought upon The Cross in The Person of Jesus Christ, and to be baptized into and walk in the fullness thereof. And it will remain a living word forever, in that it speaks the Truth of His Person, and His Works; it’s pages shall never grow old.
But, eight million years from now, all the Redeemed will truly understand that the whole of it was but an intro; a mere Foreword to the vastly greater work that He has designed to bring us into; that it is joy unspeakable, that it is FULL of glory, and that — TRULY, TRULY — in this mortal life, the half HAD NEVER YET been told.
“Please tell me how any of us can know anything authoritative about Jesus outside of the Bible?”
THAT is the right question.
“By experience!”
And THAT is THE WRONG answer; “experience” could be something you had for lunch talking back to you.
No! The CORRECT answer is, “By The Holy Spirit.” For, although we DO experience Him, He is not “AN Experience”; He is the VERY Person of The Living God sent among us at Pentecost, and — God HELP US — how we have, in our fleshly fear, shunned, compartmentalized, muted, and diminished Him!
But God has not give us a Spirit that makes us timid cowards, but One of POWER, and of LOVE, and of erudite judgment!
ABSOLUTELY, The Scriptures are “The Chariot The Spirit Most Prefers to be carried in,” and the Holy Spirit WILL NOT EVER say ANYTHING that contradicts what is written (although it may clash with how some have interpreted what is written, but that’s different), but he is not confined to what is written. He is The Second Person of the Eternal, Immortal, Immutable, Infinite God, and He is not bounded by ANY THING; He establishes bounds for everything, but He, Himself remains boundless. What is written establishes The Foundation, and the Framework, and all that The Holy Spirit says will comport with, and affirm it, but He will also elaborate, furbish, embellish, and — yea — even complete it in due course.
HEAR HIM!
How clueless can someone be? He clearly never thought through his position. I can’t even call it reasoning because there is no reason in it.
Perhaps he could instruct us on how we know about Jesus without those “66 ancient documents”.
Ping
The only thing that makes the Bible infallible is the death and resurrection of the person of Jesus. It is confessing Jesus as Lord and believing in our hearts that God has raised him from the dead that introduces us to everlasting life. The information for such a salvation is found in the scriptures.
Paul said:”If there be no resurrection of the dead, then let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die!” The resurrection is the ultimate center of the Bible’s power. If there never was a resurrection, the the Bible is just another fallible work of man. The Bible is infallible because we believe Christ rose from the dead.
It is kind of an irony that the scripture “All scripture is God breathed and profitable for reproof and doctrine...” is found in 2 Timothy 3:16...since it dovetails so neatly with John 3:16. To me...those are the two most important “chapter 3 verse 16’s” in the entire bible and they go together like bacon and eggs. The only thing the Bereans had for scripture was the old Testament and perhaps a few letters and early books of the Disciples. It takes the old Testament to give depth to the new testament but the new testament explains what the Old testament was leading to...the death and resurrection of Jesus and of his sacrifice that cleanses us of sin and all of our unrighteousness.
Now the best answer to give to those who detract from the Bible citing...this “source” or that “wrongly translated verse” is simply to cite 2 Timothy 3:16 and keep repeating it until they agree or scoff at you and stalk off.
The earliest church creeds...the apostles creed for example provide a good templates thru which, with the help of the Spirit, the Bible can begin to be read and understood. The Old Testament is threaded thru with the person of Jesus Christ, once you know how to look for him (and the creeds can provide a simple exposition of the faith)*...after all Jesus is that “WORD MADE FLESH!”. That is why he said...”Ye search the scriptures for eternal life. These are they that testify of me.”
*I think the early church creeds were sort of the first gospel style religious tracts...easily written down, memorized and passed around. Think what you will of tracts..even the “Chick” ones...they have their place! The creeds were not “the Bible” but the Bible supports what they say, especially about the person of Jesus Christ.
My nephew attended Andy Stanley’s church for years. I went with them once when I was visiting Atlanta and it was shameful. I walked out.
They haven’t returned since Covid, and I think they might be better off spiritually to go nowhere than to attend that “church”. (It’s a combo of social club and cult.)
Jesus is literally the Word of God: incarnate, eternal, and everlasting. Everything seen and unseen that was made, is made, or will be made, is by him and for him. Everything consist and is held together by him.
Jesus is God revealed. Mary can’t do anything for you except provide a warm fuzzy feeling based on a lie.
Experience is found wanting in light.
Of course they can, and quite often they do!
It's sad that a lot of these experiences are NOT from GOD; but from the DECEIVER!!
Charlatan
You two are emblematic of the fact that American-style Fundamentalist low-church Protestantism and the ancient liturgical high churches have absolutely nothing in common whatsoever. Nothing. They are two different religions. One has roots and the other doesn't; one makes sense and the other doesn't.
I once read on an Eastern Orthodox site that the Orthodox Church really doesn't have a bible at all. And you know, that's true. The Bible is simply not important to the historical chrstian churches. The "Bible preaching" encountered in American low-church Protestantism didn't exist until American low-church Protestantism existed.
I have often argued with Protestants on this site that "Bible Protestantism" has absolutely no roots in the ancient chrstian past at all. And it doesn't. All one has to do is to read the very earliest (pre-Constantine) fathers to see that they got their religion from their church and not from a bible. The idea that there was once an ancient American low-church Protestant which was the true chrstianity from its foundation until 313 is one of the most ridiculous myths in existence. But people can't give it up because the worldview of American low-church Protestantism cannot be transferred to any of the ancient churches. It has to be completely rejected before anyone can embrace true historical chrstianity. For example, only low-church Protestantism offers absolute assurance of salvation through a legal loophole rather than through mystical incorporation into a church and participation in its rituals and ceremonies (and good works). Since the ancient churches cannot set one's mind at ease, there are people who are simply unable to embrace them. American low-church Protestantism is true because it has to be (else everyone is going to Hell), not because it actually existed historically.
However, my attempts to make Protestants see reality is in no way an endorsement of actual historical chrstianity. Far from it. When one sees how utterly alien actual chrstianity is, when one sees it does nothing but replace a Biblical ritual, ceremonial, and legal code with a post-Biblical one . . . there is only one conclusion. Chrstianity has never been a Biblical religion. The only truly Biblical religion is Torah Judaism, the religion founded by G-d Himself (and not by a prophet or a messiah) and which was practiced until chrstianity usurped its place, remains the only place to turn. Unlike historical chrstianity, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever about the Biblical, and Divine, origin of Judaism. And furthermore, it is much more of a "book religion" than chrstianity ever was (until people invented a "Biblical chrstianity").
I want you all to notice something. The ancient chrstian churches constantly compare "Bible Protestantism" to islam, partly because the charge is so emotionally hurtful to its (very anti-islamic) targets. You never hear them compare it to Judaism, do you? That's because it would be taken as a compliment, and the intention of the people making the charge is to cause emotional pain. Traditionally, the Torah precedes the created universe. It was written by G-d 974 generations before creation in letters of black fire on a scroll of white fire. It was dictated to Moses (an idea liturgical chrstianity considers heretical) letter-for-letter. It is written on special scrolls according to complex rules and laws to ensure its exact and correct transmission, so that every kosher Torah Scroll is identical to those written by Moses and given to the Tribes before his death. Even what appear to be "mistakes" must be carefully preserved and never corrected. This assures us that no change has ever been made in the kosher text.
I am not advocating conversion to Judaism itself here (which isn't for everyone), but rather to the Noahide Laws which is the true religion for all non-Jews. However, like every other religion in existence except for low-church Protestantism, it doesn't assure salvation. And that is the reason most of you will cling to "Bible Protestantism" until you die. The need for assurance outweighs all historical facts.
Finally, while the ancient churches didn't invent radical Biblical criticism, you can see that it fits them like a glove. Small wonder they have all but universally adopted it as dogma. I suppose if radical Protestants hadn't invented it, the ancient churches themselves would have eventually. They are simply too unrelentingly hostile to the Hebrew Bible, which gives the lie to all their claims.
May it be G-d's will that these words help someone.
Insisting on the NIV over the KJV is bibliolatry.