Posted on 02/15/2022 5:49:53 AM PST by kinsman redeemer
The Diocese of Phoenix said 'all of the baptisms he has performed until June 17, 2021, are presumed invalid'
"The issue with using ‘We’ is that it is not the community that baptizes a person, rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes," Olmsted said.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Act 19:3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked..........
Read the above and let your lips move. What baptism? A very good question for us to ask as well as what Paul asked.
Now go read it in context.
Read it slowly, repeatedly, and outloud and let God speak on the matter.......................................
I have many times, I spent much my life struggling with the baptism question.
I accepted the Berean challenge and searched the scripturas.
They must reconcile to each other and be consistent. The only way to make baptism a required element of salvation is to read scripture in a vacuum and to put man before G-d.
Again, I ask you, how did the thief go to paradise? he was not baptized.
And the road to Hell is paved with bad actions.
Its clearly a coordinating conjunction of verbs, because "and" is used. that isn't put there for no reason as a superfluous addition. Its emphasized by Peter as a necessary step.
IMO, the priest was wrong to alter the words. I don’t think this story has anything to do with all the posts here about what baptism is or should or should not be. He was a Catholic priest and should have used the words the Catholic church wanted him to use. Why did he use “We”? Would Protestants complain if a minister performing a baptism referred to God as “our heavenly mother”? If the Catholics have decided the baptisms are bogus, that is their decision (I am not Catholic, BTW).
you mean the theology that thrust the world into the dark ages by chaining the bibles to the pews of the churches, so that nobody could read the scriptures.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I timothy 4: 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
forbidding to marry Gods word says is the doctrine of devils.
I’ saying that in this case what matters is Jesus’ words.
What does Baptism confer apart from the words and intentions of Jesus?
Because Jesus said it so, he makes it so, doesn’t that make therefore the primary case of why a man can be saved?
Jesus clearly commanded the disciples to baptize. So we do so.
The only way to make baptism a required element of salvation
Act 19:3 “Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked. And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
I think you need to clarify your position. What is baptism? How does God see baptism?
wrong-
john 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
if you have to be baptized to be saved it would have been included here. and other places.
I wish
I know more lapsed Catholics than any other sect
Frequently quite social leftists too
They seem to leave the reservation more
Those that are diligent are diligent.
You are standing alone on that scripture, by your implied reasoning all who are baptized will now speak in tongues.
I suggest you review ALL the other scriptures that clearly state Jesus’s death alone and faith in Him is ALL that is needed for the sufficiency of his grace.
I do not allow myself to fall into the trap of one scripture being the definitive statement. That is not how our Lord inspired the writing of the Bible.
In the Gospel of John, Jesus SPECIFICALLY mentioned baptism of water and the Holy Spirit. However, all of those baby boys who were slaughtered by Herod’s decree were not baptized. Does that mean they were not saved? Of course not. Those babies had nobody to present them for baptism because they were murdered. And the Catholic Church celebrates the Feast of the Holy Innocents a few days after Christmas. The Catholic Church recognizes baptism of water, baptism of desire, and baptism of blood. Those babies murdered by Herod received “baptism of blood.” They spilled their blood, which made them martyrs. The thief on the cross was covered by “baptism of desire,” because he asked Jesus for forgiveness. There was no way Jesus or the thief were in a position to come down from their crosses to participate in a baptism.
How would you compare your understanding of your faith in comparison to Catholics around the world?
Do you feel you have a greater, equal or lesser understanding than most?
Must one be literate to know the Bible?
Yep. Or imagine,
at some future time during the great judgment in Heaven. You come before God and Jesus stands by you as your as your advocate, and he is about to say “Father, I know this one,
and he accepted my grace and lived a life in faith but the wrong words were accidently spoken at his baptism so he must burn in hell.
a baptism by Jesus can still save someone who doesn’t know Jesus yet.
***Baptism doesn’t save. Faith in Jesus is what saves.
BUT INFANT baptism is not biblical. It is ineffective because the infant has made no choice.
As I have posted here, what baptism are we talking about?
It is not a simple easy question. What does God say on the matter?
Water baptism is a sign to the world. Does it matter when or that it happens and then sometime the rest of it happens. Some churches view this as two stages, infant baptism and then confession of faith. But even those two do not make salvation complete but ARE NECCESSARY.
Now what is the IMPORTANT AND NECESSARY ELEMENT OF SALVATION? What does God say on the matter? I will give you a hint if needed but encourage all to do their own research.
There does not appear to be a proper order, that is a construct of our small human minds. But it is important that all elements are there from God’s perspective.
This verse here should seriously challenge anyone thinking baptism is a hard requirement for salvation
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before YHWH, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when YHWH shall judge the secrets of men by Yahusha the Messiah according to my gospel.
Clearly implies there are those who will be judged worthy that had no worldly knowledge of Christ but kept his laws in his heart.
It came from the Greek baptisma or baptismos, which meant to dip or to immerse. When John the Baptist started calling for people to repent and be baptized, there was no confusion about the meaning. Anyone who went to John the Baptist was literally immersed into water, and that was baptism.
You’re right. If only Catholics realized what SALVATION is..and how to obtain it. It’s not through endless rote prayers..but alas, they have all been trained to believe that so who am I to argue the point?
Isaiah 29:13
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