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To: daniel1212
Daniel - your posts contain non-biblical claptrap. you may think the voluminous posts convince people, but if anyone bothers to read the details, they are all nonsensical.

Firstly, let's look at your term "heresy" - you call the orthodox view heresy and that's an oxymoron (like your posts in general) - a heresy is belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine. -- net-net, your views are heresy, not orthodox

I said "one must be scrubbed clean of all sin in the final stage of sanctification. The sins were already forgiven. As usual, you make a strawman out of your own false reading

Secondly as clearly stated "The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ Who removes from them the remnants of imperfection" --> this is not a place

==========

The rest of your post is your standard bloviating strawman wherein you think that repeating your errors over and over again will make people think you know.

Sorry, your way may worked since Goebbels

63 posted on 07/28/2021 12:29:15 AM PDT by Cronos ( )
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To: Cronos
Daniel - your posts contain non-biblical claptrap.

Have you seen the doctor about swollen gonads?


I nominate you for the Baghdad Bob Award!

71 posted on 07/28/2021 4:35:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Cronos
"Daniel - your posts contain non-biblical claptrap."

Your recourse to such blatant bombast in lieu of actual Scriptural substantiation will not help your prevaricating propaganda.

"Firstly, let's look at your term "heresy" - you call the orthodox view heresy and that's an oxymoron (like your posts in general) - a heresy is belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine. -- net-net, your views are heresy, not orthodox"

Rather, you are presuming what needs to be proved, i.e. that RC doctrine is orthodox, which presumes a sure and supreme standard, which only Scripture is, not a self-proclaimed conditionally "infallible" church, regardless of the delusions of RCs which trust in her.

"I said "one must be scrubbed clean of all sin in the final stage of sanctification. The sins were already forgiven. As usual, you make a strawman out of your own false reading"

Actually "forgiveness" also has a sense of being forgiven as to guilt or punishment, and there is that of forgiveness of unrepented venial sins. From your own Catholic Answers, and Pope St. Gregory the Great as well as Hardon:

Matthew 12:32 is often a go-to passage for Catholics when it comes to purgatory. The text reads: “Whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” Pope St. Gregory the Great wrote that, from this passage “we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come” (Dial. 4, 39). The Catechism of the Catholic Church uses this quote as support for its definition of purgatory as an after-death “final purification of the elect” (1031). Since purgatory involves the forgiveness of unrepented venial sins (along with the purification of any remnants of past forgiven venial or mortal sins—e.g., unhealthy attachments to created goods, unpaid debt of temporal punishment), some conclude that Jesus affirms the existence of purgatory. - https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/on-the-remission-of-sins-after-death

The poor souls in purgatory still have the stains of sin within them. This means two things. First, it means that the souls have not yet paid the temporal penalty due, either for venial sins, or for mortal sins whose guilt was forgiven before death. It may also mean the venial sins themselves, which were not forgiven either as to guilt or punishment before death. - https://hardonsj.org/poor-souls-purgatory-still-stains-sin-within/

Thus your argument is with Catholics here.

"Secondly as clearly stated "The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ Who removes from them the remnants of imperfection" --> this is not a place"

Actually Purgatory has traditionally often been termed a “place” and and I only referred to it being a place once and was not arguing for that definition and did not contrast it with being a condition and such can be both, and I followed with the statement "The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence." Hardon states "The place or condition in which the souls of the just are purified after death and before they can enter heaven." (https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35915) And as other of your brethen teach as regards spatial existence, Purgatory, "Heaven and Hell, can all be both places and conditions. Time is relative because we are talking about eternity." (https://www.askacatholic.com/_webpostings/answers/2006_04APR/2006AprImConfusedAboutPurgatory.cfm) I also quoted the Catholic Encyclopedia that by the close of the fourth century was taught "a place of purgation " (Catholic Encyclopedia>Purgatory) And which also taught "Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions." "the existence of a place of purgation are mentioned in conjunction in the oldest passages of the Fathers, who allege reasons for succouring departed souls...the Fathers speak, in the same breath, of oblations for the dead and a place of purgation;" "many who have died are still in a place of purification..."

Thus you are much flailing away at a ambiguous term that I did not make a point of.

The rest of your post is your standard bloviating strawman wherein you think that repeating your errors over and over again will make people think you know. Sorry, your way may worked since Goebbels

Meaning you must have wrote this to the man in your mirror.

81 posted on 07/28/2021 7:17:25 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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