Posted on 07/26/2021 9:07:05 AM PDT by Cronos
There are some who would have the Church step back to avoid persecution or giving offense. Perhaps there are assets like buildings and land to protect. And maybe some rapprochement with the world will attract more members. Or so the thinking goes.
But a study of earlier periods of persecution reveals a different plan for the way forward: confidence, courage, boldness, and love—even for our enemies. Let’s look at some texts.
St. John Chrysostom knew all about exile and persecution. At a difficult time for him and his flock, he preached from the following text of St. Paul’s:
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men (1 Cor 1:18-25).
Of this passage, St. John Chrysostom said,
How the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and his weakness stronger than men! In what way is it stronger? It made its way throughout the world and overcame all men; countless men sought to eradicate the very name of the Crucified, but that name flourished and grew ever mightier. Its enemies lost out and perished; the living who waged a war on a dead man proved helpless.
Therefore, when a Greek tells me I am dead, he shows only that he is foolish indeed, for I, whom he thinks a fool, turn out to be wiser than those reputed wise. So too, in calling me weak, he but shows that he is weaker still. For the good deeds which tax-collectors and fishermen were able to accomplish by God’s grace, the philosophers, the rulers, the countless multitudes cannot even imagine (from a homily by St. John Chrysostom, bishop, on the First Letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians (Hom. 4, 3. 4: PG 61, 34-36)).
Such words ought to encourage us as well, for many today gleefully report the decline of faith and of the influence of the Church. 2000 years of history bears witness to the fact that those forecasting the doom of the Church will be long gone, and the Church will still be preaching the gospel.
Indeed, to paraphrase G.K. Chesterton, the Church has read the funeral rights over everyone who has predicated her demise. Where is Nero? Where is Domitian? Where is Napoleon? Where is Mao? Where is the Soviet Socialist Republic? Indeed, the largest statue of Christ in the world is reportedly being built in Russia right now. Where are so many heresiarchs? What happened to the erroneous philosophies and destructive trends that have been proposed? These things have come and gone; empires and nations have risen and fallen. But the Church is still here. Often persecuted, sometimes growing and sometimes struggling, but here, still here, always here. Twelve fishermen and other commoners with Jesus have established a stronghold in the world.
Scripture says,
Some trust in Chariots or Horses,
But we in the name of the Lord.
They will collapse and fall,
But we shall hold and stand firm (Psalm 20:8).
But of course this will happen only to the extent that, by God’s grace, we DO hold and stand firm. It will not happen by adopting the world’s ways or fearfully caving in to its demands.
There is a powerful description in Scripture of the time when Peter and John were arrested for causing a commotion in the Temple area (by healing the lame beggar and proclaiming Jesus at the Beautiful Gate).
Now when [the Jewish leaders] saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus (Acts 4:13).
Note that the Jewish leaders recognized that “they had been with Jesus.” Would anyone recognize this about you, or your parish, or your fellow parishioners, or even us clergy? This is our main goal in times like these: that others recognize that we have been with Jesus! In times like these, the Church must be the Church.
And notice this prayer in the Acts of the Apostles, of the early Church under persecution. It takes place just after the arrest of Peter and John, after they had been warned not to mention Jesus again.
“And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness (Acts 4:29-31).
In her work on Acts, Dr. Mary Healy notes that they do not pray for safety or for their enemies to be vanquished; they pray to be able to continue to speak with boldness, to bring healing, and to announce Jesus and draw others to Him.
And this should be our prayer: Lord, keep us strong. Keep us bold and filled with love for our enemies and for all those who are troubled and in need of healing. Never allow us to hide or to be concerned for our own safety, but rather concerned only that your glorious and Holy Name bring healing and grace, conviction for our sins, repentance, and therefore mercy. Help us, Lord, to stay faithful, courageous, and bold no matter the threats, the hardships, the persecution, and even the ruthless attempts at suppression. May no one who looks at us conclude anything less than that we “have been with Jesus.”
Courage and holy boldness, fellow Catholics! The only way we will change the world (by grace) is to be Catholic through and through. The world does not know it, but Christ and His Body, the Church, are the only hope. Be authentically Catholic, and by that grace, save the world!
The trouble with Catholicism is that they cannot understand WHAT God’s grace actually is. They may talk about it but they really don’t have a clue since they cannot distinguish between God’s grace and “man’s free will”. Thus they talk in endless circles never really understanding God’s grace. The Council of Trent dismissed the early church fathers’ writings and divided God’s grace into two parts (actual grace and sanctifying grace). Today the Catholic Church cannot give a simple definition of grace without a lot of gobbly-gook. If you think I’m being a bit harsh, I would call people attention to the Catholic Encyclopedia New Advent and the definition of grace. See if you can read through the definition before giving up half way down.
Protestants (most) simply define God’s grace as “the spontaneous, unmerited gift of the divine favour in the salvation of sinners, and the divine influence operating in man for his regeneration and sanctification.” That’s it. Period. It’s that simple. This btw was how the early church fathers viewed it. Amazing how men muddle up God’s simple words and makes thing far more complex then they need to be. But then, that is what the Pharisees did, isn’t it.
So when these types of articles pop up, it should be made clear that the Catholic Church doesn’t have the foggiest idea of what grace is despite all the talk about it.
I pray for this nonsense of man's hubris to be ended sooner than later ... IF it be thy will oh Lord God.
I can almost hear old Luther saying ‘see, I told you so’!!! Course not being of the sect of Lutheranism, I do not vouch for their doctrine, only that strangely, and repeatedly I have read the savaging of Luther for having the nerve to question the god of Rome. After all it was our Lord and Savior that commanded ‘call NO man ‘father’ ... yet that is the traditions of men.
Firstly, let's look at your term "heresy" - you call the orthodox view heresy and that's an oxymoron (like your posts in general) - a heresy is belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine. -- net-net, your views are heresy, not orthodox
I said "one must be scrubbed clean of all sin in the final stage of sanctification. The sins were already forgiven. As usual, you make a strawman out of your own false reading
Secondly as clearly stated "The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ Who removes from them the remnants of imperfection" --> this is not a place
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The rest of your post is your standard bloviating strawman wherein you think that repeating your errors over and over again will make people think you know.
Sorry, your way may worked since Goebbels
Not a place - is that so hard for you to read?
your own beliefs in the pre tribulation rapture and other nonbiblical stuff are not Christian, yes.
As clearly stated, it is not a place - it is the final stage in sanctification for those headed to heaven
The question is, what specific beliefs under that umbrella term of “Protestantism” do you hold to?
For instance, the Lutherans and some Anglicans - at least the orthodox ones, are close to orthodox beliefs.
But other “Protestant” religions like
> Oneness Pentecostals who deny the Trinity
> Seventh Day Adventists who say Jesus is the angel Michael
etc. are deviations from Christianity
As you, Kierk correctly point out, if we read John 6 - just the words of Jesus recorded
he said to Philip, “Where can we buy enough food for them to eat?”
Philip answered him, “Two hundred days’ wages[e] worth of food would not be enough for each of them to have a little [bit].”
Jesus said, “Have the people recline.”
He gave thanks, and distributed them to those who were reclining, and also as much of the fish as they wanted.
they saw Jesus walking on the sea[k] and coming near the boat, and they began to be afraid. 20 But he said to them, “It is I.[l] Do not be afraid.”
“Amen, amen, I say to you, you are looking for me not because you saw signs but because you ate the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal.”
“This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.”
, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. 36 But I told you that although you have seen [me], you do not believe. 37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it [on] the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day.”
“Stop murmuring[r] among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets:
‘They shall all be taught by God.’
Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; 50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
“Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?[u] 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh[v] is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”
“For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
“Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?” 71 He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.
Jesus’ deeds and words are clear
1. God will feed the multitudes
2. I am God - I can walk on water
3. Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you
4. This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent
5. my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
6. I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger,
7. I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
8. unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
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He is crystal clear - and He emphasizes that this is not an allegory, but repeats thrice that this is what you are to do - eat of His Body and drink of His blood
the beef is that one can see the direct extrapolation from Luther's first steps all the way to Mormonism, Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses and pre-tribulation rapture
Luther disgreed with some parts of orthodoxy -- he was the first generation
the next generation of reformers went one step further and junked more of orthodoxy - Zwingli and Calvin
the third like the anabaptists junked even more
And you end up with the Mormons and Adventists in the 19th century.
Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life
The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism
This clear enough that we do and have had a clearer idea of grace than before the various non-Catholic movements?
And don't say "Protestants simply..." -- that's not true for the wide range of contradictory beliefs that go under the label Protestantism - the Christian Scientists, the Oneness Pentecostals, the ELCA, the PCUSA, the SBC all differ in what they mean, so you can't use that umbrella term
Have you seen the doctor about swollen gonads?
I nominate you for the Baghdad Bob Award!
A squirrel!!
Call no man father.
I’m glad you Catholics are such a solid group.
Mary must weep to see so many of you disavow the duly elected pope.
It's not that we HAVEN'T read what your teaching guide says about 'grace', but that we HAVE read so many OTHER things that your chosen religion has said about 'grace'.
“Unless you eat my flesh (greek - literally gnaw) or drink my blood ( gurgle) you will not have eternal life.”
Jesus also said that He is the door. He said that He is the bread of life.
The wine and the bread is taken by the believer in remembrance of what Jesus has already done on our behalf. The bread, His body, was willingly given up for our healing, His blood, willingly shed to pay the final wages of sin actually due us.
I really don’t care if Catholics want to believe that the wine and bread become the blood and body of Christ. People who have placed their God given faith in Jesus Christ should do what Christ says, “do this in remembrance of Me”.
What is your proof text?
“Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life”
No, Grace is NOT “help”. God does NOT “help” us get redeemed, HE REDEEMS US, period. Even the faith necessary TO BELIEVE is given us by God. We have NOTHING to do with our redemption. The call of God on ones life is answered by repenting(changing ones mind) and using the free gift of faith God gave us to believe on Him and be born again. Grace is wholly imparted and bestowed upon us by God, whereby He counts the sacrifice Jesus made on the Cross and the blood shed By Him for us to be applied to us and in our place.
“The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism”
Grace is a gift of God to believers who have repented and turned towards Him. The original sinful dead to God spirit that we all inherited from Adam is born again into a spirit alive in Crist. We were NOT sinners because we sinned, we were born sinners because the spirit we were born with was sin stained, and unable to commune with God.
It is quite obvious just from this thread why the teachings of Catholicism is mostly incompatible with God’s simple plan for salvation. Building walls of crazy over explained, and mostly wrong and over complicatedly defined, edicts for its followers to attempt to wade through in order for them to work out their own salvation is just not what God’s free gift of Grace is.
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