Be Catholic to Save the World by Grace! Some Words of Encouragement from the Early Church

ADW.org ^ | 25 July 2021 | Msgr Pope

[Cronos]

Old Yeller - you're lying

As per the Catholic Church Sanctifying grace is that grace which confers on our souls a new life, that is, sharing in the life of God. Our reconciliation with God, which the redemption of Christ has merited for us, finds its accomplishments in sanctifying grace.

The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man

Why are you lying about what other people believe?

[Cronos]

Acts 2:38-39
Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”
The New Testament speaks of the baptism of “whole households” which in the normal Greek usage of the time included children.

1 Cor 1:16
I (Paul) baptized the household of Stephanas also ...
Acts 11:13-14
He related to us how he had seen (the) angel standing in his house, saying, ‘Send someone to Joppa and summon Simon, who is called Peter, who will speak words to you by which you and all your household will be saved.’
Acts 16:15
After she (Lydia of Thyatira) and her household had been baptized, she offered us an invitation...
Acts 16:30-32
Then he (the jailer) brought them (Paul and Silas) out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you and your household will be saved.” So they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the synagogue official, came to believe in the Lord along with his entire household.
To the Colossians, Paul paralleled baptism and circumcision. Circumcision was normally administered to children eight days after birth.

Col 2:11-12
In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
To the Corinthians, Paul recalled that just as all the Jews of the Exodus (including children) were baptized into Moses by passing through the Red Sea, they were actually being blessed by Christ.

1 Cor 10:1-4
I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. All ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was the Christ.
In Mark’s Gospel, we have Jesus’ own teaching on children.

Mk 10:13-16
And people were bringing children to him that he might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.” ... Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation after the promulgation of the Gospel for everyone, both children and adults.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered (Nicodemus), “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.”
It is frequently asked by non-believers how an infant is capable of making an act of faith in order to receive baptism. The response of the Catholic Church is to follow the Biblical example of Christ. Jesus accepted the faith of others as an occasion of salvation, forgiveness and healing of another. The Church has always done likewise. In infant baptism, the faith of parents and sponsors is required.

Mk 2:1-5
When Jesus returned to Capernaum ... They came bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. Unable to get near Jesus because of the crowd, they opened up the roof above him. After they had broken through, they let down the mat on which the paralytic was lying. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Child, your sins are forgiven.”
Mt 8:5-13
When he entered Capernaum, a centurion approached him and appealed to him, saying, “Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, suffering dreadfully.” He said to him, “I will come and cure him.” The centurion said in reply, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof; only say the word and my servant will be healed.” ... When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Amen, I say to you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith.” ... And Jesus said to the centurion, “You may go; as you have believed, let it be done for you.” And at that very hour (his) servant was healed.

you are wrong again, yeller

[Cronos]

sects are those various modernist groups like yours, that sprung up in the past 200 odd years.

Christianity i.e. Catholicism, Orthodoxy is far older than your philosophy

[Cronos]

Momma, you are spreading false stories you’ve heard. That’s fake news.

Christians used the Septuagint Old Testament in Greek with its 45 books. The Jewish rabbis who survived the destruction of Jerusalem, at Yavneh in c.90 AD adopted a narrower Hebrew canon of 39 books.

The NT is the list of books which the bishops authorized for reading at the Eucharist.

The earliest list we have is that of the Muratorian canon c.180 AD.

The canonical list we have now was defined at the Councils of Rome (380) and Carthage (397), By the year 358 the current canon of Scripture was agreed upon before council. That’s not to say, though, that there was no Bible before that. Only three books were ever seriously in question by the Church: the Didaché, the Epistles of Clement, and The Shepherd of Hermas.

Those councils were just reproducing what appears to have been almost a fait accomplish by the end of the second century.

[daniel1212]

"Correct, one must be filled with grace and scrubbed clean of all sin before entering heaven as in heaven (God's presence) there can be no sin. The final stage in this purification is of course purgatory - not a place but the final burning away of our sin for us heading to heaven"

Your heresy has so often been refuted that there should be no need to do so again, but since Catholic, like cultist, seem compelled to abuse FR in persistently parroting their propaganda despite its fallaciousness being exposed time after time - as if that such persistence results in converts or an indulgence rather than being an argument against being a Catholic - then such warrants being reproved again.

First, there is zero Scriptural teaching on being forgiven sin after death (and Matthew 12:32 refers to the millennial reign of Christ), and in Scripture effectual heart-purifying regenerating faith - the faith which effects the obedience of baptism (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9; Titus 3:5) and following the Lord (Romans 6:22) - is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5; 10:10) rendering the convert "accepted in the Beloved" and positionally seated with Him in Heaven on His account, (Ephesians 1:6; 2:6) and who, by His sinless shed blood has immediate access into the holy of holies in Heaven, (Hebrews 10:19) as one washed, sanctified and justified (1Co. 6:11) - which positional status he this seeks to actualize (Col. 3) - and will immediately go to be with Him at death or His return.

For wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious reality for believers after this life then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord,” though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3:7f)

And with the only suffering after this life being that of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's revelation and disapproval) at the judgment seat of Christ, which one is saved despite the loss of, and which does not occur until the Lord's return and the believers resurrection. (1Cor. 3:8ff; 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) And which resurrection being the only transformative the believer looks forward to after this life (Rm. 8:23; 2Co. 5:1-4; Phil 3:20,21; 1Jn. 3:2) — not purgatory, which suffering commences at death in order to enable souls to enter Heaven.

Secondly, RC (since EOs differ on what Tradition and Scripture teaches on this and some other subjects) Purgatory is not simply a place of obtaining forgiveness of sins by providing additional atonement (another issue), but of attaining to perfection of character:

Every trace of attachment to evil must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected. Purification must be complete, and indeed this is precisely what is meant by the Church's teaching on Purgatory. The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ Who removes from them the remnants of imperfection (John Paul II, Audiences, July 21, 1999; cf. Ecumenical Council of Florence, Decretum pro Graecis: DS 1304; Ecumenical Council of Trent, Decretum de iustificatione: DS 1580; Decretum de purgatorio: DS 1820).

Catholic professor Peter Kreeft states,

"...we will go to Purgatory first, and then to Heaven after we are purged of all selfishness and bad habits and character faults." Peter Kreeft, Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer, p. 224

Likewise RC apologist Jimmy Akin,

"The purpose of purgatory is to bring you up the level of spiritual excellence needed to experience the full-force presence of God." (Jimmy Akin, How to Explain Purgatory to Protestants).

For RC Purgatory flows from the premise expressed by Augustine who "describes two conditions of men; "some there are who have departed this life, not so bad as to be deemed unworthy of mercy, nor so good as to be entitled to immediate happiness" etc. (City of God XXI.24.) And thus by the close of the fourth century was taught "a place of purgation..from which when purified they "were admitted unto the Holy Mount of the Lord". For " they were "not so good as to be entitled to eternal happiness." (Catholic Encyclopedia>Purgatory)

This itself is a result from the Catholic premise that justification is a process based upon actual sanctification via the act itself of baptism (so that the newly baptized would go straight into glory if they immediately died then, but not after their sin nature that remained manifested itself) vs. heart-purifying regenerating faith being counted for righteousness among the regenerate, but not as making one actually good enough in character to be with God.

While in Catholic theology man does not merit the grace by which process one is justified, yet the "the process of justification" means that it is on the basis of sanctification via baptism (by which one receives "sanctifying grace," having an "interior sanctifying quality") that one is justified by, and which "confers the right to heavenly glory." Thus it is held that newly baptized Catholics would go directly in heavenly glory if they died at that time, before committing sin. But since such soon manifest imperfection, then this premise of salvation via actual sanctification leads to the need for Purgatory in order to become good enough to actually be with God.

"This inner quality of righteousness and sanctity is universally termed 'sanctifying (or habitual) grace')." "this justification cannot, according to Christ's precept, be effected except at the fountain of regeneration, that is, by the baptism of water"

"by which even an infant in receiving baptism is necessarily made just and pleasing to God," "by the grace of this sacrament the catechumen is freed from sin (original and personal) and its punishments, and is made a child of God."

"whereby He makes us just, in so far as He bestows on us the gift of His grace which renovates the soul interiorly and adheres to it as the soul's own holiness (Trent, l. c., cap. vii)." The Council of Trent decreed that the essence of active justification comprises not only forgiveness of sin, but also "sanctification and renovation of the interior man by means of the voluntary acceptation of sanctifying grace and other supernatural gifts" (Trent, l. c., cap. vii)"

"According to the Council of Trent sanctifying grace is not merely a formal cause, but "the only formal cause" (unica causa formalis) of our justification." For, "Justification is "considered as a state or habit (habitus justificationis), it denotes the continued possession of a quality inherent in the soul." (Catholic Encyclopedia > Justification) Thus one is "formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness (causa formalis)." - Catholic Encyclopedia > Sanctifying Grace: emp. mine

What this is means is that "by the grace of God" man, via the act of baptism - which produces its effects ex opere operato=by the act itself - (The Catholic Encyclopedia>Sacraments), the soul receives "sanctifying grace which renders men the adopted sons of God and confers the right to heavenly glory" (Catholic Encyclopedia > baptism) being actually made "just and pleasing to God."

While this magic act is appealing, and is set in contrast to a misleading characterization of sola fide (as if that simply meant believers were merely white-washed sinners), what it means is that souls are imagined to be actually good enough to be with God. Thus the innocence of baptism is not enough, but regeneration, however, while the latter does create a new heart rendering man a "new creature," (2Co. 5:17) yet his sinful nature remains, as the new convert will quickly realize.

Besides Scripture only teaching that believers go to Heaven wherever it manifestly describes their location after this life, among other problems of salvation via moral perfection ("by God's grace") means that since the so-called "good thief" of Luke 23 went to be with Christ in Paradise that day (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4) then somehow he attained to moral perfection in just a few hours on a cross. Likewise Abraham suddenly becaem good enough when he believed God's promise of innumerable descendants. (Gn. 15:6) And that since Paul confessed that he was imperfect yet would be with the Lord once absent from his earthly body (Phil 1:23; cf. 2 Cor. 5:8) then he neglected to mention his processing time in Purgatory. Likewise in telling the Thessalonians that if the Lord returned in their lifetime then all believers would henceforth with the Lord. (1 Ths. 4:17) How could they all be so good as to escape Purgatory?

In addition, the whole premise that suffering itself perfects a person is specious, since testing of character requires being able to choose btwn alternatives, and which this world provides. Thus it is only this world that Scripture peaks of here development of character, such as "Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations." (1 Peter 1:6) The Lord Jesus, in being "made perfect" (Hebrews 2:10) as regards experientially being "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15) was subjected to this in the life.

Catholicism also fosters faith in one's own merit and that of Herself for salvation, including by such reactionary misleading statements as,

"nothing further is wanting to the justified [baptized and faithful], to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life." (Trent, Chapter XVI; The Sixth Session Decree on justification, 1547) Likewise Canon 32 teaches that if anyone says that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God does not truly merit eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself, let him be anathema.

There is a contextual sense in which works justify, meaning they justify one as being a believer as it did Abraham, having fruit that accompanies salvation (Rm 8:14; Heb. 6:9,10) and thus fulfilling the affirmation given thru imputed righteousness. (James 2:23; Gn. 15:6; Rm. 4:1ff) And God rewards the faith of believers as expressed in works by the Spirit, (Heb. 10:35) though man the only things man can - and must - claim any credit for is his disobedience, but as regards what obtains justification then it is effectual faith, not any moral merit.

[daniel1212]

"No Catholic Church = No Bible"

No Catholic Church = no distinctive Catholic teachings that are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels). However, your argument is what? That the magisterial endorsers and preservers of Scripture are the sure interpreters of it, to whom all are to submit?

[Elsie]

Golly!

This guy could become Pope Pope someday!

[Elsie]

Correct(?), one must be filled with grace and scrubbed clean of all sin before entering heaven as in heaven (God's presence) there can be no sin.

Oh?

---

I've read, in the book your chosen religion has assembled, that...

What kind of a 'body' does a human supposedly have in purgatory?

[Elsie]

...remember me when...      ...you will be with me in purgatory...

[Hootowl]

I can’t remember his name but 35 or so years ago a Catholic bishop said that church tradition was more important than the Bible. His was back in my seeker days and was a factor in steering me into protestantism.

[Phlap]

I stand corrected on the rites but it is what the Nuns said. Got any video to prove me wrong?

[Zionist Conspirator]

How the foolishness of God is wiser than men . . . !

Except for that evolution thing (the church fathers were "men of their time").

[dsc]

“but it is what the Nuns said.”

And again, you may have thought that’s what they said, but it wasn’t.

“Got any video to prove me wrong?”

I’m sure there are thousands of hours of video showing nuns teaching Catholicism, but it’s not up to me to prove they weren’t teaching un-Catholic nonsense. That’s your nonsensical claim, and it’s up to you to support it.

[KierkegaardMAN]

Unless you eat my flesh (greek - literally gnaw) or drink my blood ( gurgle) you will not have eternal life.

Does this offend you?

[Phlap]

So, you don’t have any?

[KierkegaardMAN]

No prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation...

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth

They wrestle with the Scriptures to their own destruction

Hold fast to these traditions...

I know only Jesus Christ and Him crucified

I make up in my own body the sufferings that are lacking in the sufferings of Christ

Do you understand what you are reading? How can I unless somebody teach me?

Anyone who eats of the bread or drinks of the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

The gates of Hell will not prevail against it!

There are many more things that Jesus did, if all of them were written down I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books it would contain.

Here are some considerations:

The first three centuries of the Church the canon of Scripture had yet to be established by the Church.

Once the canon was established less than 3% of the Christians were literate. How did the other 97% live as “Bible believing Christians”. Who read it to them?

Jesus is righteous. God hears the prayers of a righteous man. Jesus prayed that we “be one as He and the Father are one.” Thanks to the error of sola scriptura there are 35,000 plus so called Christian churches world wide.
Where is that ONE church? One faith, one baptism...

[dsc]

“So, you don’t have any?”

If your reading skills are so weak that you must have video, just look at the broadcasts Mother Angelica did for EWTN, or Bishop Sheen’s broadcasts.

There are 2000 years of Catholic scholarship that an honest person could consult. It doesn’t matter what I personally possess in my house, and it is dishonest in the extreme to pretend that it does.

I despise dishonest people, and don’t have any more time for your nonsense.

[Elsie]

Thanks to the error of sola scriptura there are 35,000 plus so called Christian churches world wide.

Who taught you this? Nuns?

I've seen Catholic numbers that range from 25,000 to 80,000.

Clara wants to know, "Where's the beef?"

[KierkegaardMAN]

Hah. We used to call it Argumentum ad yellow pages.. look up ‘church’ and voila an endless list - but honestly, if God said “one Church” wouldn’t two churches be too many? On this Rock (kephas) I will build my Church (not churches) Incidentally, while there are always exceptions, most nuns I’ve known have been left wing new age liberals who reject most of the Church’s teachings. Hence, the dying orders worldwide except those that are faithful to Jesus and His Bride, the Church. Not even Francis Can destroy Her, albeit not for lack of trying.