Was "the plan" to expel God from the Garden of Eden (Bible Thumper caucus)

FPO

[Faith Presses On]

After all, Satan's bait was that Adam and Eve would become as gods. And together with Satan, that would seem to them to be at least two or possibly three gods (if Satan was believed to be a god as well) against one.

[Elsie]

There is but one God. You know it, and the complement.

It seems you've failed to comment on the post to you at #78

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(click)

Praise to the Man!

 

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

[jimfr]

Why did Adam sin? Why do you and I sin? Eve sinned because she wanted to be like God. However, Adam did not want to be like God; he wanted Eve, worshiping the creation instead of the creator and not seeing God great as He is. Adam did not go to God with his problem so that God could solve his problem. I believe God would have caused history to be completely different if Adam would have gone to God for help instead of seeing things as hopeless and gave into sin.

[Elsie]

*In recent editions of the LDS hymnbook, "Plead unto heaven" has replaced the words "Stain Illinois."  http://mldb.byu.edu/phelps4.htm

 

 

(Salt Lake City just CAN'T leave things alone!)

Heck; the recycled tune of Scotland the Brave probably has some note changes as well.

[metmom]

I have no idea how it would have turned out. We aren’t told that.

However, God told them not to eat or they’d die.

So Adam, who was with her, watched her eat. My guess was that when he saw nothing happened to her, he chose to eat too.

It was after HE ate that the eyes of both of them were opened and they saw they were naked.

[HarleyD]

True, but I tend to provide answers in anticipation of what atheists would say, and thus cut them off at the pass!

I think that could be summed up in a quote I heard attributed to Charles Spurgeon (although I can't verify it): "Believe like a Calvinist and preach like an Arminian."

Seems like sound advice. :O)

[Seven_0]

So Adam, who was with her, watched her eat. My guess was that when he saw nothing happened to her, he chose to eat too.

Wouldn't this suggest that Adam didn't believe God yet scripture says that Adam was not deceived.

[MHGinTN]

You claim to be a Mormon. As such your religion says no one enters Heaven except they are approved by Joe Smith. Didn’t you know?

[metmom]

I think he wanted to see what happened to Eve after she ate.

When no apparent change occurred I think is when he decided it was safe to eat.

[Seven_0]

Anything that would cause Adam to doubt God would be a deception. Adam chose to die with Eve rather than to live without her. Adam is a figure of Christ.

[Faith Presses On]

The point of the thread was to study what happened, including by asking questions. So Satan had a plan, but did it sound like one to, say, Eve? A very simple one. By eating the fruit, according to Satan, they’d become like God, and so wouldn’t have to worry about God punishing their disobedience. Eve first told Satan that God had said if they ate, or just touched, the fruit, they’d die, but then Satan reassured her by saying that God was lying and just didn’t want them to know that eating the fruit would make them as gods. “Nothing to worry about, Eve. God just doesn’t want you to be equal to Him, so He lied to you.” And however you look at it, it was rebellion against God’s Lordship.

[Faith Presses On]

A lot to agree with there.

[Faith Presses On]

Do we find in the rest of the Bible and in the world itself people making efforts to try rid themselves of God?

[Faith Presses On]

All very true. On Satan, his pride might still deceive him a great deal. After all, look at all the power he has over people and how many do follow if not actually worship him.

[Faith Presses On]

Yes, true that Adam wasn’t tricked by Satan. He did, however, listen to the voice of his wife (Genesis 3:17) in whatever it was she apparently said to him that afterwards he ate the fruit as well.

[Faith Presses On]

I know what you mean about Adam and Eve. We’ve all sinned as they did and Christ also died for their sins and paid its penalty. And it does seem that they worshipped God, as you say.

[Faith Presses On]

Were you maybe having a bad day when you wrote that reply?

As I wrote elsewhere here, the point of the thread was just to study what happened, including by asking questions.

Satan had his own plan, but did he maybe repackage it to Eve? A very simple one. By eating the fruit, according to Satan, they’d become like God, and so wouldn’t have to worry about God punishing their disobedience. Eve first told Satan that God had said if they ate, or just touched, the fruit, they’d die, but then Satan reassured her by saying that God was lying and just didn’t want them to know that eating the fruit would make them as gods. “Nothing to worry about, Eve. God just doesn’t want you to be equal to Him, so He lied to you.”

Satan’s lie might have replaced the proper fear of the Lord with a false, sinful confidence that one can and should make war against God.

All throughout the rest of the Bible and in the world itself, humans try to get rid of God. Jesus told parables to that effect.

[Faith Presses On]

I’m merely talking about what’s in God’s Word, and it shows that they sinned and were expelled from the Garden, and us along with them.

[MHGinTN]

Non sequitur, portraying Daniel1212’s response as due to a having a bad day. it is YOU who posed the following foolishness: “what Satan and possibly Adam and Eve came up with, an unholy plan to expel God from the Garden so as to live there by themselves and do as they please”. You are so ill educated that you pose a assertion which was not possible until the fruit episode. Until the fruit episode God’s mantle of spirit life rested upon them. It was in place WHEN the fruit episode happened. GOD knows the heart of each so such an assertion by you is not only unbiblical it exposes your lack of biblical understanding.

[daniel1212]

"Were you maybe having a bad day when you wrote that reply?"

Absurd exegesis what is seriously bad, which is what your idea of Satan and possibly Adam and Eve coming up with a plan to kick God out of the Garden. There is zero warrant in the text to think the 3 could have been conspiring with the devil, vs, Eve being deceived as Scripture actually states, while a study of the devil shows that rather than the goal being to expel God out of the Garden so as to live there by themselves and do as they please, the devil's tactics and goal was consistent with his original rebellion and its premise, as explained.
You cannot separate the devil of old essentially acting as if God is unworthy of supreme exaltation and guilty of injustice by not "sharing the wealth" (with those who are undeserving who are not victims) and thus presuming to exalt himself to the position of God, (Is. 14:13,14) with him actually insinuating this to Eve, reducing God to a selfish deity unworthy of allegiance (as His replacement, the devil, actually is), and thus convincing her she is justified in obtaining what God unjustly withheld in order for her to become like God. And then essentially telling God that He is unworthy of devotion since Job only does it because of the benefits he is given, versus loving God for what He is, and thus once said blessings are removed then Job would act as this devil does.

All of which God allowed in order to provide man with a choice and expose the devil as being, "a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it," (John 8:44) a thief who only comes "to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life," while the Son came that "they might have it more abundantly. "(John 10:10)

Thanks be to God.

[Faith Presses On]

I really don’t believe that it would be acceptable during a discussion in an adult Sunday school class held in person to turn to someone else and say, “Where do you come up with such nonsense?” Or, for that matter, what you just said to me here.

And the rules here agree: discuss the issues but don’t make it personal.

The Lord said a lot about how we’re to treat other people, both within and without the Body of Christ. The internet is no exception, and we who are Christians especially should really work to keep conscious of that at all times. And I don’t except myself from ever being guilty of that because it’s easier to depersonalize people online and to respond more negatively than one would in person. I’m certainly guilty of doing that. I think as Christians we’re all capable of better.

Now returning to the issue here, again, I asked a question for discussion that there’s a lot of at least partial basis for. Including that Jesus told similar parables. One is where the vine dressers decided to kill the heir when he showed up. It doesn’t mean they came up with an elaborate plan. Only that when they perceived a possibility that appealed to what was in their hearts, they decided to give in to sin and act on it, thinking they’d then have the vineyard.

Satan definitely had a plan, so yes to that part of the question.

As for Adam and Eve, this question asks what we know and also might be able to learn about what was in their individual hearts before, during and after their sin.

Just as in Jesus’ parable, the heir’s appearance suddenly birthed a simple but evil plan in the hearts and minds of the vine dressers, so might what Satan have said birthed a simple but evil plan, more in the heart than the head, for Eve and possibly Adam to challenge God because the lies he told rocked their world — God is lying to you, you can actually become like Him, and He’s keeping you from doing so.

And let me say again this was a question asked for the sake of looking at what happened in Garden, and it’s especially important as the world takes more steps towards trying to expel God.