Why The Septuagint Is Superior To The Masoretic Text

6/7/2021 | Its All Over Except...

[Phinneous]

Rereading this— you clearly don’t believe the veracity of the Torah (the “OT”)

[Phinneous]

Seems more like between 2nd century CE and Nicaea, Cronos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

Rabbinical Judaism (as you call it) I concede adapted post-Temple ritual (”What do we do now without a Temple, ey?”) even the structure of our liturgy is pre-destruction, pre-70CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Assembly

[Phinneous]

Not true— Codified between 2nd and 6th centuries... not composed. The Mishna is from Sinai, and the Gemara (Talmud is the commentary of the discussions of the sages who lived up to the 2nd Temple. That’s the Aramaic part.

Look at a Jewish source once in a while:
Talmud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ioro9x-Wo8

On the Oral Law (codified as the Mishna) How can it have been transmitted:
https://www.simpletoremember.com/media/a/oral-tradition-video/

[Cronos]

Regarding the Trinitarian philosophy - this is clear in the Didache of 52 AD and clear by the way the Jesus movement kept itself as a sect of Judaism. This was a strictly monotheistic milieu

If they accepted Marcionism then you would be correct, but Marcionism (which rejected the OT god as a demiurge) was a rebellion against Christian thought of the Trinity.

Rabbinical Judaism which is the proper term for today's "Judaism" is really a sister sect of Christianity - it is "what do we do without a Temple", yes. The structure of the liturgy is no different than the "Christian" - more precisely "Jesus movement Judaism" structure of the Liturgy of the Word

Both Jesus-movement Judaism and Rabbinical Judaism have the commonality of the liturgy of the word, which is quite a contrast to the structure of worship in say Hinduism or Zoroastrianism

[Cronos]

Rabbinical Judaism of today is a sister religion to Jesus-movement Judaism as is evidenced when we look at the "aunt religion" :) of Samaritanism

The Samaritans have their own Torah which is more or less the same as the Rabbinical Judaic Torah BUT they reject the Prophets and definitely the Talmud as "later additions"

I see it as

• the Hebraic religion with the Torah continuing until about 800 BC, then the divergence with the Judeans accepting additions as in the form of the Prophets to the Torah, but the Samaritans rejecting them
• This continuing until about 500 BC when there come those who insist on an Oral Torah - which formes into the Pharisee party by 200 BC
• The Jesus movement along with the Sadducees and Essenes reject this Oral Torah and the Pharisees
• The Judeans who remained in Babylonian influence or birth the Mandaens who take much of the Torah but merge it with the remainings of Sumerian beliefs
• The destruction of Jerusalem and the destruction of all 2nd temple Jewish sects except the Jesus movement and the Samaritans
• The Pharisees create Rabbinical Judaism to solve the "what do we do without a temple" - changing the structure of forgiveness, about how God is seen etc. (well more modifying or emphasising one aspect for the latter)
• The Jesus-movement shrugs off the 'Jewish' label after the Kitos war when the Jews committed genocide against the Cyrenes and Cypriots making their religious name odious to the Romans (so a "Hey, we ain't those guys, ey!" move)
• The Mandaens birth the Manichaens in the 300s
• The Roman empire becomes Christian and Rabbinical Jews are persecuted, many moving out of the Empire
• Some Arabs convert to Judaism - as see in Yūsuf Asʾar Yathʾar - the Yemeni Himyarite king who converted to Judaism and persecuted Christians - in 540 AD -- this is crushed by the Christian Axumite empire
• but some Yemeni Arab converts to Judaism remain and influence people in the Hejaz region and you have another Jewish and Christian offshoot - Ebionites coming to fore and conquering the Sassanids and much of the Eastern Roman Empire in the late 600s
• These monotheistic arabs only create Islam as a codified religion in the 750 to 900 AD period and this is heavily done in Baghdad where the Jewish Scholars and the Islamic scholars swap learnings -- the relation between the Halacha and Sharia and between the Hadith "science" and Talmudic attestation are too many to ignore

  I've condense a lot and oversimplified a lot in the above, so ask away and we can discuss civilly as you do :)

[Cronos]

Well, I said composed because I don’t see historical traces for the Mishna except as the echoes of them in the Oral Torah of the Pharisees.

But I agree that the more accurate term would be “codified” as I can’t factually prove that they WEREN’T created before that time.

Thank you for the links to Jewish sources — I fully agree I have more to learn about your side of the argument, and I would also argue that you would need to learn about the Christian side of the argument - and the Samaritan and the Sadducee.

If you have more links or books about the Jewish side besides the actual Talmud (which I am still wading through - and that’s the key term “wading”) - I would welcome it

[Elsie]

Superior?

Compared to WHAT?

DIFFERENT is about all we can accurately say about it, since we have ZERO ‘originals’ to look at.

[Elsie]

It’s like the KJ only folks, but set farther back in time!

[Elsie]

There ya go!

[Elsie]

I wonder what Mathew 23:9 references?

[Elsie]

Amen!

[Elsie]

Makes ya wonder which ‘version’ of the Isaiahan scroll the eunuch was reading when Philip came by.

[Elsie]

... but sometimes they can be quite noticeable.

True indeed!

My NIV footnotes show where in the OT these things are found. Some read more like a paraphrase than a quote.

[Elsie]

I've learned so much from my copy of the Septuagint.

So; you read Greek; eh?

[Elsie]

All of us us 'scholars' can relax, for Reformed Egyptian has trumped them all.

[Elsie]

The Hebrew word alma is used seven times in the inspired text of the Old Testament.

HAH!!

We can do better than that!!

[Elsie]

The Apocryphal books are invaluable in my opinion and add important details to events in our Bibles.

Oh?

They seem to be of little help in understanding (and OBEYING) Matthew 23:9.

[Elsie]

While it is an interesting story, it doesn't have any doctrinal implications.

Oh?

I would imagine that thousands of sermons preached from this text would have a differing view of the situation.

[Elsie]

I had the feeling that there were more things to ‘discuss’ than dancing angels - pinwise.

This thread proves me right.

[Cronos]

Can’t you read the article before commenting?