Salvation is a free gift of God - Have confidence you are saved!

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[Teleios Research]

Be convinced of these 4 biblical truths: 1. Each of us has sinned; 2. God is just, requiring a punishment for sin; 3. But out of love God sent His Son, Jesus Christ who by dying on the cross, provided forgiveness of sins in taking man’s deserved punishment; 4. Therefore, by faith alone in Christ’s sacrifice for our sins and belief in His resurrection, man can gain eternal life. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 3:21-26)

[MurphsLaw]

Well… maybe a bit tongue in cheek for today… - but we always have to see it as “forgive them, for they know not what they do”… that goes especially for even the most venomous nutters…. I think it sometimes is naturally easy to generalize a situation when we can become blinded by the attack- and then fail to not see the attacker.

Christ gave us the Church as a method of conversion… to bring people into communion with Christ. We can’t say that the Church has always stood courageous in it’s mission…. so enter the resistance. But to err is human.

Personally my life was forever changed- much having do to Protestant converts to the Church, and the intellectual treasure they have brought with it - And that’s not an indictment of Traditionalism, but rather the beautiful fruits of it. Scott Hahn is the perfect example of what Christ wanted for his Church.

Yes many of our DIY Christian brethren fall prey to their human will and ego- and disregard St Peter’s edict - “no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation” – but in that they see Christ as Savior is common Christian ground. And the path we are all on shares that ground- albeit often many going in their own, different directions. For those indeed are the Lord’s lost sheep….. who now have become ours...

[GardenerForLife]

Let's repeat a basic Bible lesson:

You laid it out really well.

Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) --> note these are HIS own words

They see it, but don't want to accept it. *They don't want to.* No one, not even God can change their minds. It's a form of gaslighting. A person that has real faith is teachable.

The problem is, that if they accept the things you have shown in your post, it means they are in the same category as other like minded people who they reject for other various reasons. In other words, they can't be seen agreeing with the enemy, so to speak.

If Jesus says, you must be baptized, your doctrine had better include "you must be baptized".
If Jesus says, you must repent, your doctrine had better include "you must repent".
If Jesus says, you must endure to the end, your doctrine had better include "you must endure to the end".
etc...

Everyone gets to choose their own path though right? :)

[ADSUM]

Cronos responded :

“Mark 16 has it given as examples, not commands as in John 6.

In John 6 these are not only commands but Jesus repeats them thrice - even after disciples leave him as “this is a teaching we cannot follow”

The two are not the same”

If one does not want to listen to a response to your post, then one should not react in an unchristian manner.

You are quick to request answers, but do not reply to questions about your beliefs.

The power of the gospel is displayed through the miracles of those that preach it truthfully. (Mark 16: 17-18)

Why do you question the belief in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist with preaching the Gospel?

[Iscool]

You are entirely clueless into the role of the Priest in the Church. To think a Priest "turns into" Christ is absurdity... the only people who think that are those that need to hate God's Church. This is the same ignorance that thinks those who worship God in his Church confuse God the Father in Heaven, with the human Priest on the Altar..

Well here's your chance then to educate us on what is the role of the Catholic Priest at confession and the Mass...

[SouthernClaire]

“Why do you question the belief in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist with preaching the Gospel?”

Because God does not change. Blood is forbidden both in the Old Testament and the New Testament. Period. There is no question about it. None. Also, God does not operate in such a confusing and sickening manner to do such a thing as have people cannibalize His beloved Son Jesus. That’s wickedness.

[ADSUM]

Your comment:”You left out apparitions and things that go bump in the night.”

You like to object to Catholic beliefs. Perhaps you are truly inspired by Satan? So bump in the night must be Satan trying to confuse you.

The Catholic Church not not require belief in private revelations as they are not part of the Deposit of Faith, but that some are in accordance with the Catholic beliefs and worth understanding and may help us live our faith more fully.

We have been warned by the Blessed Mother:
Third Message June 23, 1962

“The Virgin has told us:
The world continues the same...That it has not changed at all. FEW WILL SEE GOD. They are so few that it causes The Virgin much Sorrow. What a pity that it does not change. The Virgin told us that the Chastisement is coming seeing that the world is not changing. The cup is filling up. How sad the Virgin was although She didn’t let us see it because She loves us so much and She suffers alone. She is so good! BE GOOD EVERYONE SO THAT THE VIRGIN WILL BE HAPPY. She told us that We who are good should pray for those who are bad. Let us pray to God for the world for those who do not know Him. Be good...be very good everyone”
Maria Dolores Mazon, Jacinta Gonzalez 13 years old

TO THE EUCHARIST, THERE IS GIVEN LESS AND LESS IMPORTANCE. We should avoid the Wrath of God on us by our good efforts. If you ask pardon with your sincere soul God will pardon you. It is I, Your Mother, who through the intercession of St. Michael, wish to say that you amend, that you are already in the last warnings and that I love you much and do not want your condemnation.

http://www.garabandal.org/News/Message_7.shtml

You should sacrifice more. Think of the Passion of Jesus.
Conchita Gonzales

[ADSUM]

Ok. That is your opinion. It is not words of Jesus in the Bible.

Jesus clearly stated that he was giving us in Body and Blood to eat and drink. Jesus said “my flesh is true food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” “ I am the bread of life.”

You do not accept the command of Jesus that is necessary for our salvation.

I hope that you find peace and can accept the true meaning of God’s words.

[MHGinTN]

Andf The Lord finishes the scene telling the disciples who remained with him that the flesh prophets nothing, it is ... well here's the passage:

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. NKJV

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life ESV

63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life; YLT (Young's Literal Translation)

I would ask metmom to post the lengthy list of repeated commands to not eat the blood, but you have so completely shut the truth out of your mind that it would once again be a wasted effort to try and reach you with The Word of God. You and your Org have determined to make God duplicitous so the blasphemies of your cult are supported.

[Elsie]

Please simplify this for me.

Jesus said to call no man father.

But what did He really mean?

[MHGinTN]

And here is metmom's excellent message:

Metmom's wonderful explanation regarding the blood of Christ: Eating Jesus doesn't save anyone.

Believing on Him and receiving Him does.

John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him (Nicodemus),“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Since we are forbidden to eat blood or human flesh, and that prohibition against consuming blood stands outside the law, Jesus could not have given His actually flesh and blood to His disciples to eat and commanded them and all others to violate His perpetual ordinance, and sin.

Then He would not have been the sinless sacrifice for our sins.

Nor did they eat the blood as Peter relates in Acts 10 that he had never eaten anything unclean.

If peter thought or understood Jesus to mean that what Jesus was offering him to eat was actually, literal flesh and blood, not only would ha have refused but by his own testimony, he did refuse.

Or Peter lied to God about never having eaten anything unclean.

John 6:63 where Jesus tells His disciples this.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

He's telling them that what He just said was a metaphor and represents SPIRITUAL truth, not physical reality.

Also, He says here in that chapter you tell me to read...

John 6:53-64 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum. When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)

Are you going to live forever, here and now in this physical body since you here and now physically ate and drank?

After all, if you are going to take it literally that it's literal flesh and blood people are consuming, then the results must also be literal, here and now.

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Do you ever get hungry and thirsty?

If you believe that He's talking about literal eating, then the results must also be literal.

The entire weight of revelation prohibits the eating of blood. This was given before the Law, given in the Law, and reiterated after Jesus ascended.

Here are all the passages connected with it.

Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.

Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”

Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”

Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.

“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.

Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.

Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.

Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.

Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’

Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:

“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Here Jesus Himself calls the cup *the fruit of the vine*, HIS recognition that it's only wine, not blood.

Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

So are you trying to tell me that Jesus is going to command people to violate His Law that's a reflection of His righteous character?

That would be Jesus commanding them to sin.

So it the eating is figurative, a symbolic remembrance, there is no conflict with the rest of Scripture.

If the eating is literal, as Catholics claim, then there is a conflict in Scripture and it's yours to explain away, how God is now contradicting Himself.

And spare me the logical fallacy of *God can do anything He wants*.

Because that is NOT true.

13 posted on 03/11/2018 5:32:03 AM PDT by metmom

[Elsie]

You like to object to Catholic beliefs. Perhaps you are truly inspired by Satan? So bump in the night must be Satan trying to confuse you.

You like to tell about Catholic practices. Therefore you are truly inspired by nameless apparitions? So when one says "Pray my rosary for non-biblical benefits" it's really Jesus' mom trying to help you?

[Iscool]

SC Do you believe that Jesus was speaking to the church not yet then founded in Matthew 25? The church that His disciples knew nothing about and which would be founded on the Gospel of Grace according to what was later taught to our dear brother Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles by Jesus Christ Himself?

There you go dividing Jesus' teachings again

Well of course...But that's in the church epistles...So you wouldn't know about it...
2Ti_2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

We are instructed to divide the bible teachings...

Jesus spoke to the Church of no more Jews and no more Gentiles. Jesus founded that Church with His picking of His 12 apostles.

Well he did not...How can you be so wrong so often???

Act 11:19  Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. 

Mat 10:5  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 
Mat 10:6  But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 

Mat 10:7  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 

But that's the physical kingdom where Jesus rules from Jerusalem, NOT the spiritual kingdom of God which is made up of the church, the body of Christ...And you don't know that either...

Mat 15:23  But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 
Mat 15:24  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 

Joh 4:21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 
Joh 4:22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 

The Christian Gentile church wasn't even revealed to any one till after Christ's Crucifixion...Do you know anything about the bible???

[ADSUM]

Your comment: “Also, God does not operate in such a confusing and sickening manner to do such a thing as have people cannibalize His beloved Son Jesus. That’s wickedness.”

Cannibalism is eating a dead flesh. Christ is alive.

I will accept the words of Jesus and the practice of millions that believe in Jesus. I am the living bread that came down from Heaven.

[Iscool]

Isn't Jesus pretty clear? you MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE

So you picked out all the scriptures that were written to Sabbath worshiping, pork abstaining, living under the law Jews...Not a single verse from the church epistles written to the Gentile churches...Man, are you clueless...Or dishonest...

[MHGinTN]

John 6:63 confirms that Jesus had used sarcasm to underline His spiritual message. He knew these doubbters were very well versed on not eating human flesh or eating the blood of a creature, so His sarcasm was the more powerful in revealing their unbelief in Him. Jesus used sarcasm on many occasions, not just once the Jewish leaders had rejected His offer of the Kingdom. He also made more severe comments (see Matthew 23, the ‘woe to you’ verses prior to the Olivet Discourse to the Jews.

[SouthernClaire]

Ok. That is your opinion. It is not words of Jesus in the Bible.

Jesus clearly stated that he was giving us in Body and Blood to eat and drink. Jesus said “my flesh is true food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” “ I am the bread of life.”

You do not accept the command of Jesus that is necessary for our salvation.

I hope that you find peace and can accept the true meaning of God’s words.

---

Adsum, it is not my opinion, it is Scripture. God gave us the prohibition against the consumption of blood, both in the OT and in the NT. You cannot escape this fact and, if you’re honest, you must admit the glaring contradiction between what is done by Catholicism and what God says we are to do. Consumption of blood is clearly prohibited in the New Testament. Do you contend that it is not? Please answer this question. You tell me that you hope that I can accept the true meaning of God’s words. I do: blood is forbidden. Do you really want to say otherwise?

[SouthernClaire]

Very good post, MHG. We should also bring into memory why Jesus used parables. I am of the opinion that a few on this thread would have been in the group who did not and could not understand what Jesus meant in His parables.

[MHGinTN]

So tell us ORGman, do you believe you are eating Jesus on the cross or Jesus in His now glorified body? ... You have yet to answer that one for the several times I have asked that of you.

Perhaps you are unable to answer because deep down you realize that to claim to be eating the alive Jesus whose Body is not in this four dimensional realm but in the Third Heaven so your hocus pocus priests cannot possibly reach Jesus with the Catholic ORG incantations!.

You are a fraud, defending the cultish assertions of the Catholic ORG (rhymes with Borg).

[SouthernClaire]

+1 and a hearty “amen,” Iscool. Amen.

It’s beyond me to reckon how people actually believe the church is being spoken of when Jesus had not even gone to the cross and the church was not even in existence and, indeed, could not have been.

Somebody needs to go figure (’cause I sure can’t figure it).

Your post was great, btw. Explains so much, quotes Scripture to back it up, and clearly shows the problem of trying to erroneously insist that the church is being spoken of when it’s clearly the Kingdom of Israel.

[MurphsLaw]

To think a Priest "turns into" Christ is absurdity..

Well here's your chance then to educate us on what is the role of the Catholic Priest at confession and the Mass...

Well, as far as Mass goes- you can easily see for yourself how the Priest Celebrates Mass - 1 hour at a TLM Mass would be my easiest suggestion... if - there is truly an interest there..
Though as you already know, the role is the Priest - and reconciliation- is rooted in the Ordination and commisioning of the Apostles… its not any more difficult than that…… but that will have to be a discussion for 50 days from now… not during the Triduum….

John 20
Jesus said to them again,+++ “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”+++

James
Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is any one among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church . . . and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.

St. Paul continued with the Pastoral theme...
Two Corinthians….
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

9 Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10 Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive— I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

There is much more...but not today...
Peace.