Salvation is a free gift of God - Have confidence you are saved!

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[Teleios Research]

Be convinced of these 4 biblical truths: 1. Each of us has sinned; 2. God is just, requiring a punishment for sin; 3. But out of love God sent His Son, Jesus Christ who by dying on the cross, provided forgiveness of sins in taking man’s deserved punishment; 4. Therefore, by faith alone in Christ’s sacrifice for our sins and belief in His resurrection, man can gain eternal life. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 3:21-26)

[Cronos]

Mark 16 has it given as examples, not commands as in John 6.

In John 6 these are not only commands but Jesus repeats them thrice - even after disciples leave him as “this is a teaching we cannot follow”

The two are not the same

[Elsie]

I heard Waldo was seen at the opener yesterday...

[Elsie]

As Philip asked the eunuch, “Do you understand what you are reading?”

[Elsie]

...we are required to do the works He has commanded us to do,...

Which are what?

[Elsie]

The Catholic Church can substantiate that the Catholic faith is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium.

You left out apparitions and things that go bump in the night.

And your current leader is such a godly man, too.

[Elsie]

What do you expect?

He was a Catholic!.

If he hadn't been in such a hurry, he could have nailed a LOT more to that door!

[Elsie]

Wow!

It’s 7:42 and the TODAY show is running a blurb about “If the church doesn’t change”

Young women leaving the Catholic church.

[Elsie]

What should I look up in these two scripture references you allude to?

[Cronos]

Mark 16 has it given as examples, not commands as in John 6.

In John 6 these are not only commands but Jesus repeats them thrice - even after disciples leave him as “this is a teaching we cannot follow”

The two are not the same

[Cronos]

John 6 if you read in the Bible, starting from John 6:30, we read

30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

They asked Him for a sign, saying that Moses gave them manna in the desert. If Jesus (according to them) was aspiring to the level of Moses, He should do something as big as that.

and Jesus says something strange to them -- He says Moses didn't give you bread, My father did, and bread that comes down from heaven. Then He says that HE is the bread of life, HE is the manna -- and manna was to be eaten.

The people around Him made the same mistake you did, which is to think he was speaking as a metaphor.

Yet Jesus REPEATED the same thing, saying

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died.
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

And now the crowd is openly rebellious saying “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
And

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.

Note -- Jesus doesn't clear up the Metaphor, like he did in Matt. 16:5–12

5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread.
6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?
9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

So, Jesus DOES indicate when it is a metaphor and when it isn't.
In this case, look at the reaction of his DISCIPLES, people who had heard his teachings for so long and followed him

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”...

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

You cannot say that this was just bread and wine of that this is a metphor for coming and having faith in the Lord or some kind of metphor for believing in Christ because of the reaction of the Jews and the very language -- to eat one's flesh and drink the blood means to do violence on some one. You see it even in Hindi where a threat is "Mein tera Khoon pie jaongaa" or "I will drink your blood" -- and this is among vegetarians! To drink a persons blood means a serious threat of injury.So, if you believe that this was just a metphor, you mean to say that Christ is rewarding people for crucifying Him?!! That's nonsensical, sorry.

You cannot even say it was a metaphor by incorreclty comparing it to John 10:9 (I am the gate/doorway) or John 15:1 (I am the true vine) is because this is not referenced in the entire verse in the same way as John 6 which shows the entire incident from start to finish of Jesus saying His body is to be eaten, repeating it and seeing his disciples go and not correcting them (as he did in Matthew 16).

Even in the literal sense -- Christ says he is the gateway to heaven and the vine such that we get nourishment with him as the connecting path. But John 6 is much much more than mere symbolism as He categorically states that "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).

Even at the end of John 6, Jesus rebukes those who think of what He has said as a metaphor by emphasising that

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life.
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

Jesus repeats the rebuke against just thinking in terms of human logic (Calvin's main problem) by saying

John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

Just using human logic as Calvinist thought does, without God's blessings behind it fails in grace.John 6:63 does not refer to Jesus's statement of his own flesh, if you read in context but refers to using human logic instead of dwelling on God's words.

And, all of this is confirmed in Paul's writings to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 10:16)

6 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

and also 1 Cor 11:27-29

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

How clear can Paul get? "The bread IS a participation in the body of Christ" and "who eats the bread... will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord" This is not just mere bread and wine anymore. This is the body and blood of Christ.

Finally, the Earliest Christians also said any consideration of this as just a metaphor was false -- Ignature of Antioch (disciple of Apotle John) wrote in AD 110 wrote about heretics who abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again" (Letter to the SMyrnaens). The earliest Christians beleived this to be the ACTUAL body of Christ. Why, they were also accused by pagans of being cannibals and Justin MArtyr had to write a defence to the Emperor saying "Not as common bread or common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished, . . . is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus"

in view of this overwhelming evidence from scripture and supplemented by the practise and belief of the earliest Christians, we can only say that there IS a real presence in the Eucharist. Martin Luther too believed it -- he said that Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. --> only Calvin/Zwingli turned around what Christ had said

as our Protestant Lutheran brethren say From the Lutheran LCMS.org website

All three accounts of the institution of the Lord's Supper in the Gospels (Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-23) explicitly state that Jesus took BREAD, blessed it, broke it, and gave it to his disciples saying, "Take, eat; this [i.e., this BREAD, which I have just blessed and broken and am now giving to you] is my body." Jesus uses similar language in referring to "the cup" (of wine) as "his blood."...

Perhaps the most explicit expression of this truth, however, is found in 1 Cor. 10:16-17, where Paul writes: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread."

Paul clearly says here that we all "partake" of "BREAD" when we receive the Lord's Supper--even as we also partake of and "participate in" the true body of Christ. And he says that we all "partake" of the wine (the cup), even as we also partake of the true blood of Christ.

Similarly, in 1 Cor. 11:26, Paul says: "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." Paul expressly states here ........................that those who eat this bread and drink this cup are also partaking of the true body and blood of Christ.

So "real" is this participation in Christ's body and blood, in fact, that (according to Paul) those who partake of the bread and wine "in an unworthy manner" are actually guilty of "profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27). (Partaking of the Lord's Supper "in a worthy manner," of course, is not something that we "do" or "accomplish" on the basis of our "personal holiness" or "good works." It means receiving God's free and gracious gifts of life and forgiveness offered in the Lord's Supper in true repentance produced by the work of the Spirit through God's Law and in true faith in Christ and his promises produced by God's Spirit through the Gospel).

This is substantially different from Mark 16 which is not a repeated injunction but a "they could if they wanted to and they would not be harmed"

[Cronos]

And Lutherans of today hold to the same beliefs.

Not only Lutherans, but look at the Eastern Orthodox from whom there was the political split in 1054 or the Copts (Political split in the 400s) or even the Assyrian Church (political split when they came under the Sassanid empire in 240 AD) — all hold to similar beliefs about the nature of Mary as the mother of God Jesus

[Cronos]

The Today show can report a lot of stuff.

However, younger women are leaving because of the Church’s stance on abortion.

Do you, Elsie, think that’s a comparison to Luther?

[MurphsLaw]

You are entirely clueless into the role of the Priest in the Church. To think a Priest "turns into" Christ is absurdity... the only people who think that are those that need to hate God's Church. This is the same ignorance that thinks those who worship God in his Church confuse God the Father in Heaven, with the human Priest on the Altar..

Anyone who honestly shares your misconception is a nutter....

[Cronos]

Adsum asked a simple question -

Why don’t you provide some basis that your protestant beliefs are based on the Bible as you claim? It is obvious that you avoid answering because they are not based on Scripture but on man’s personal opinion.

The Catholic Church can substantiate that the Catholic faith is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium. The Catholic Church has the authority and the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and loose from Jesus Christ. Yes, the Catholic Church were the original Christians and many left when they believed in heresies, even including the protestants 1500 years later. They are always welcome back before they die if they fully accept God’s Truths.

You don't have anything in response as the various multitudes of myriad beliefs from Oneness Pentecostals to Seventh Day Adventists, Unitarians, etc. don't have any - as they aren't from God

[Cronos]

And Adsum is vain in His trust in God. Jesus said that He would leave a community, a Church.

That’s what Adsum is vain in - in Jesus who is Lord, God and Savior.

[Cronos]

SouthernClaire Do you know which gospel Our Lord preached during His ministry?

Our Lord certainly didn't preach that there would be two separate communities - a Jewish-Church and a Gentile-Church as you believe

[MurphsLaw]

When Christians are relying on Godless NBC’s Today show for inspiration.... you know it’s gotten pretty bad....

[Cronos]

SC Do you believe that Jesus was speaking to the church not yet then founded in Matthew 25? The church that His disciples knew nothing about and which would be founded on the Gospel of Grace according to what was later taught to our dear brother Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles by Jesus Christ Himself?

There you go dividing Jesus' teachings again

Jesus spoke to the Church of no more Jews and no more Gentiles. Jesus founded that Church with His picking of His 12 apostles.

Paul was not the only apostle to the Gentiles -- Bartholomew converted the gentile Persians and Thomas converted the gentile Malayalees and Tamils

[Cronos]

Let's repeat a basic Bible lesson:

1. What does Jesus say saves us?
   • Matt. 24:13

     13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

     yes, Jesus said it is not faith ALONE. We are saved by God's GRACE. Full-stop.

     James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- it's never faith ALONE. Note that

     1. He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
     2. [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)<,li> [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

     so, take it up with Jesus who says the above.

   • Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
     35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
     36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
   
   Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) --> note these are HIS own words

2. 1 Pet. 3:20-21: " It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

3. Note -- also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved -- so Faith is definitely one of the things needed, yet as you see above, it is not ONLY faith. Remember -- James says "even the demons believe - and shudder" -- it is not faith ALONE that saves

   The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

   Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

   Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ

   Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men

   On the death-bed the person who repents, believes has accepted God's freely given grace of justification -- note, we do not justify ourselves, nor do we earn this

   Let me repeat this

   all salvation comes from Christ the Head

   or 269 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men

   Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved. -- you twist a lot of words to contradict Jesus -- He said this quite clearly, "He who believes AND IS BAPTISED is saved" -- as 1 Pet 3:20-21 reiterates In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, -- now if you wish to disregard the Bible, that's your choice. Remember, The Glory is to GOD that has saved is in this -- the salvation is by the resurrection of JEsus Christ -- Glory to God, not man

   Luke 13:3 [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. -- again, Jesus is very clear. Take Jesus's own words first -- what does He say? "unless you repent, you will perish" -- God gives us the grace to repent yes, but we must accept this grace

   John 6:54 -- again, Jesus is very clear. Why try to put words into His mouth? If you have a problem with what Jesus said -- take it up with Him

   Matt 25:31-46 --> no one said it's a qualifier. I just pointed it out that it is not faith ALONE that saves

   Matt 24:13 --> Why reference Paul for what Jesus has clearly said? He who endureth to the end is saved -- I never said that it is anyone but Jesus who gives us the power to do this --> Why don't you get this into your head before you go accussing folks, I continuously said and say that we are saved by God's grace, we give 100% credit for our ability to repent, to believe, to endure, to share in His body etc --> I only said it is not faith ALONE, but GRACE ALONE that saves us --> read before accusing this is what Jesus said

   • He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
   • [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3
   • [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)
   • 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Matt. 24:13 )
   • Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

     Isn't Jesus pretty clear? you MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE

[SouthernClaire]

I asked you to not ping me anymore to whatever it is you have to say. DO NOT PING ME AGAIN. I am even more not interested since the last request for no pinging. Words cannot express how totally uninterested I am. Goodbye.