The Romans Road {leading to the salvation of the soul}

You have accused me of being a "dolt" I truly believe that you are either a dolt or have dementia, or both. Over and over again I have told you that I believe (and all SDA's) that I am saved by GRACE, AND THAT'S IT. I am not saved by any works or law. It is a free gift from God. You should see a neurologist and get on some medications for your memory. Maybe then you will be able to "connect the dots."

Maybe this will help you to understand what SDA's believe: (and it is certainly what the bible teaches) I suggest you print it out and have it handy, in case you forget, that is.

Romans 6: 13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!… (God forbid)

NOT UNDER THE LAW. Literally, “not under law.” The definite article “the” is not used with either “law” or “grace” (see on ch. 2:12). Paul is not referring here primarily to any law in particular but to law as a principle. His point is that Christians are not under law as a way of salvation, but under grace. Law cannot save a sinner, nor can law put an end to sin or its dominion. Law reveals sin (ch. 3:20), and because of the sinfulness of man, law, as it were, causes transgression to increase (ch. 5:20). Law cannot forgive sin, nor can law provide any power to overcome it. The sinner who seeks to be saved under law will find only condemnation and deeper enslavement to sin. Wherever the principle is held that man can save himself by his own works, there is no effective barrier against sin (DA 35, 36).

But the Christian does not look for salvation legalistically, as if he could be saved by his own works of obedience (ch. 3:20, 28). He acknowledges that he is a transgressor of the divine law, that in his own strength he is wholly incapable of fulfilling its requirements, that he justly deserves to be under its condemnation, and surrenders himself through faith in Christ to the grace and mercy of God. Then, by the grace of God (see on v. 24), his sinful past is forgiven and he receives divine power to walk in newness of life. When a man is “under law,” despite his best efforts sin continues to have dominion over him, because the law cannot set him free from the power of sin. Under grace, however, the struggle against sin is no longer a forlorn hope, but a certain triumph.

The offer to be under grace, thus to have victory over sin, and the enabling power for the attainment of every virtue, have been extended to every one of the descendants of Adam (John 3:16). But many have blindly or stubbornly chosen to remain under law. Even many who profess an earnest desire to be saved prefer to remain under law, as if they could commend themselves to God and earn salvation by their own obedience to law. Such was the experience of the Jews, and such is the experience of many professed Christians today, who in their pride of self-righteousness are not willing to acknowledge their own helplessness and to surrender themselves wholly to the mercy and transforming grace of God.

Paul is saying that as long as a man is under law he remains also under the dominion of sin, for law cannot save one from either the condemnation or the power of sin. But those who are under grace receive not only release from condemnation (Rom. 8:1) but also power to overcome (ch. 6:4). Thus sin no longer will have dominion over them.

SHALL WE SIN? See on v. 1. The form of the Greek verb may suggest the occasional act of sin, as compared with the continuing in a life of sin of v. 1. May we indulge ourselves in sin once in a while now that we are not under law but under grace? Paul’s answer is that any indulgence in sin is a return to that bondage to sin from which grace has released the sinner.

To suppose that being under grace means that the believer is now at liberty to disobey the moral law of God with impunity is to misunderstand completely God’s whole purpose in the plan of salvation. It was man’s violation of God’s law in the first place that caused God in His love to offer grace to the sinner. By the grace of God man is released from sin’s rule. How then can anyone conceive it to be right or reasonable deliberately to place himself back in the old bondage? To disobey God’s law is to become once again the servant of sin, for disobedience to divine law is sin (1 John 3:4), and whoever goes on sinning is the servant of sin (John 8:34). To continue in the indulgence of sin after accepting the pardoning and transforming grace of God is to deny the very purpose of that grace. Whoever refuses to allow the grace of God to bring him into more and more perfect obedience to divine law is rejecting grace itself and thereby turning his back on freedom and salvation.

Now since even you realize that the law defines sin then you should be able to connect the spiritual dots which show those in Christ who are then not under the law cannot sin.

As Christians we are under an even HIGHER DUTY to obey God’s law.

You saying that Christians can’t sin and are not responsible even if they could sin, is a blatant lie.

“And one more time” (that’s what you said to me, remember?) Why don’t you tell all of us about the Catholic lie of FUTURISM and how it became the lie of the Pre Trib Rapture?

You saying that Christians can’t sin and are not responsible even if they could sin, is a blatant lie.

We do sin, but can't sin, at the same time...And we've got the scripture to prove it...

And we have the understanding also..

We do sin, but can’t sin, at the same time...And we’ve got the scripture to prove it...

You do realize that the above statement sounds idiotic?

And we have the understanding also..

You are sorely lacking if you believe that Christians can’t sin.

You do realize that the above statement sounds idiotic?

Well of course it does...And that's not the only one...

Rom_4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Does the Lord impute sin to you, or no???

Rom_4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom_4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom_4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom_4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Says here we are righteous, right now...

But once you figure out this body/soul/spirit thing,

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And the spiritual circumcision,

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: ,

You get a far better understanding of what we're talking about...

The key to understanding the bible is first, believing it...Obviously there's a large bunch of scripture that you Seventh Day Adventist guys ignore, or change because it sounds idiotic...All that stuff is in there for a reason...Every word in the bible is important, especially the little ones...

Obviously there’s a large bunch of scripture that you Seventh Day Adventist guys ignore, or change because it sounds idiotic

Like the Antichrist shows up on earth 7 years before Christ returns and there’s no prophecy fulfilled for 1500-1800 years (Gap Theory). You mean like that?

The key to understanding the bible is first, believing it...Obviously there's a large bunch of scripture that you Seventh Day Adventist guys ignore, or change because it sounds idiotic...All that stuff is in there for a reason...Every word in the bible is important, especially the little ones...

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I'm coming to the realization that "you guys" don't have a clue and I'm convinced it's because of all the lies told over the last few hundred years, coming from agents of Satan, that all of you believe. Here's just one of the texts that you noted.

Romans 4:8

WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN. That is, the Lord will not charge or reckon his sin against him. This is the negative side of justification, the forgiving of past sin. The positive side, as expressed in vs. 3, 5, 6, 9, 11, 22, is the imputing of righteousness. The two are inseparable. To emphasize only the first, to think of justification as only pardon and forgiveness, may rob this experience of some of its reconciling and life-giving power. The positive realization that God has not only forgiven me but has also imputed to me the righteousness of Christ fills me not only with gratitude but also with hope and aspiration for the future. God is concerned not simply with my forgiveness but with my restoration of fellowship with Him. To think of justification as simply pardon is perhaps to look too much to the past. God wishes me to know that He has not only forgiven me but is also prepared to treat me as if I had never sinned (see SC 62). My past will not be held against me. From now on I am to be treated as a friend, even as a son (1 John 3:1, 2). Thus He gives me a fresh, new start. He has done everything possible for my complete reconciliation. And this awareness by faith of the meaning of the experience of justification inspires me with courage and determination for the future. I know that the perfect character of Christ, which has been imputed to me in justification, may from now on be imparted to me in sanctification, to transform my character into one like His. Thus, while justification deals primarily with the past, it represents not only the end of a life of alienation and rebellion but also, and even more importantly, the beginning of a new life of love and obedience.

The evangelical Heidelberg Catechism, first published in 1563, explains justification in these words: “How art thou righteous before God? ANSWER. Only by true faith in Jesus Christ; that is, although my conscience accuse me that I have grievously sinned against all the commandments of God, and have never kept any of them, and that I am still prone always to all evil, yet God, without any merit of mine, of mere grace, grants and imputes to me the perfect satisfaction, righteousness, and holiness of Christ, as if I had never committed nor had any sin, and had myself accomplished all the obedience which Christ has fulfilled for me, if only I accept such benefit with a believing heart.” Compare EGW Supplementary Material on Rom. 4:3–5.

This verse is talking about PAST SIN being counted against you, BEFORE you are saved by grace. At that moment you are as sinless as one can be because God has forgiven those sins, like they never happened.

Salvation can only be achieved through faith in the Lord’s completed work, whether we’re Jew or Gentile.

Jesus (John 3:16, John 6:28-29, John 6:40, John 10:27-30) and Paul (Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Cor. 1:21-22)

the vast majority of believers who reject OSAS simply don’t understand that although nine different writers were involved in composing the New Testament there was only one Author, the Spirit of God (2 Tim. 3:16), and being God He can’t contradict Himself. He can’t say one thing in one place and something else in another.

11 Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it.

12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?

It is faith and also

Endurance in believing in Christ — Matthew 10:22
... whoever endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

(this above negates OSAS)

and also
Baptism - 1 Peter 3:21
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.

Works of God (meaning the our good works will prove our faith genuine in the eyes of men (see James 2:18). The main point for James is that our works “complete” our faith and keep it alive. And inasmuch as our works are necessary for a living faith, they are necessary for keeping us in a saving relationship with God. This is why James can write, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

James 2:14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 18 Indeed someone may say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. 19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. 20 Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.” 24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? 26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

— Note, just working without faith does not save you - that’s clear. And you can’t save yourself, no matter how much you do

Furthermore, remember - “Repent and believe”

Looking at the entire message of the Christ it is clear that we have Repent, believe, be baptised, eat of HIS body and have faith and endure to the end. That’s how we get saved through grace

Agreed. It’s also understood that baptism is necessary unto salvation. Romans 6: 4-5 speaks to being buried with Christ in baptism.

Correct.

Baptism, belief, repentance, faith, eating of His body and enduring to the end is how we are saved by grace.

It's not only one thing - it's "and"

Looking at the entire message of the Christ it is clear that we have Repent, believe, be baptised, eat of HIS body and have faith and endure to the end. That’s how we get saved through grace

So where does the grace come in??? God gave us the grace to save ourselves if we do all the things you mentioned???

There is no such separation of "Church age" and non-church age. The dispensationalist myth is just that, a myth.

The dispensationalist view of the end times was developed in the 1830s by an ex-Anglican priest named John Nelson Darby

God has always had only one people, or family, throughout history. This 'family of God' is gradually formed and takes shape during the stages of human history, in keeping with the Father's plan. In fact, 'already present in figure at the beginning of the world, this family in God was prepared in the history of the people of Israel, it will be brought to glorious completion at the end of time

Even Luther and Calvin understood the community in Christ to be the true heir of Israel i.e. the New Israel is Christendom

In the Bible the word "dispensation" never refers to a period of time. Invariably its meaning is "a stewardship," "the act of dispensing," "an administration." Read the four New Testament texts in which the word "dispensation" is found: 1 Corinthians 9:17; Ephesians 1:10; 3:2; and Colossians 1:25. Weymouth's translation of 1 Corinthians 9:17 reads: "A stewardship has nevertheless been entrusted to me."

God's dealings with man have been ever the same. Faithful Abel and Enoch, Abraham and Moses, were all "saved by grace." Their lives were marked by obedience to God's commandments. By "faith," they obeyed So, today God's Church keeps the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I Peter 2:9 - "9 [a]But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may announce the praises” of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." -- addressed to the community of Christians both of Jewish and gentile origin

and

Ephesians 2:14–15 14 [a]For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, 15 abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person[b] in place of the two, thus establishing peace,

-- there is no TWO "Jewish origin" and "Gentile origin" - there is since Christ just ONE - the new Israel, Christianity

Responsibility2nd It should be clear that if Jesus Christ himself commanded that we go and make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost that baptism is essential. It should be clear that every act of conversion in the book of acts included baptism.

Have you been baptized for the forgiveness of sins? I’m sure you have. So why the hostility against this commandment?

you are 100% correct according to God

You are just not able to see, The church has its destination and survivors of the at the second coming have theirs. One is on the earth and the other is in the New Jerusalem.

God is concerned not simply with my forgiveness but with my restoration of fellowship with Him. To think of justification as simply pardon is perhaps to look too much to the past. God wishes me to know that He has not only forgiven me but is also prepared to treat me as if I had never sinned (see SC 62). My past will not be held against me.

So 'grace' wipes our sinful slate clean right up to the time we accept Jesus as our Savior...At that point we are justified and then have to start over...We are justified for about 30 seconds or less; til we commit our first sin after Justification...

I will reiterate that you people seem to be ignorant of the body, soul, and spirit and the spiritual operation that takes place in the circumcision made without hands...Why don't you study up on those things and then comment???

You are just not able to see, The church has its destination and survivors of the at the second coming have theirs. One is on the earth and the other is in the New Jerusalem.

A Catholic priest goes to seminary for 4 years...The first 3 years are required studies of human philosophy...The last year is studies of Catholic Church operation...They know less bible than Jehovah Witnesses and probably Buddhists...