The Romans Road {leading to the salvation of the soul}

[MayflowerMadam]

“It’s also understood that baptism is necessary unto salvation.”

So too bad for that thief on the cross next to Jesus. Jesus must’ve lied to him when he said, “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

Baptism is a testimony to others — a profession to the world — of salvation. Baptism comes after salvation.

[MHGinTN]

Do you recall the passage which Ken referred to as an idiomatic expression? If you know what an idiomis, how about explaining to us why you think that was gibberish? Do you recall to which passage he referred?

[MHGinTN]

It is amazing to see it so well illustrated when some folks make salvation conditional upon one or more works, rather than the works as professional. What you see so clearly they do not want to see because it removes any glory from them for what they believe are gifts / works to God to earn His Grace. Some religions trying to look like Christianity have a list of works that must be adhered to in order to obtain eternal life. These religions even have special representatives trained in that religion to guide adherents along the sacramental pathays portrayed as necessary to obtain and retain eternal life.

Those miss that God alone puts His seed to abide in the human spirit giving by His Grace His eternal life to their believing spirit. Of course The Word of God explains that sad phenomenon of unbelief to us referring to the carnal mind cancelling the spiritual mind: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. Romans 8:7
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1st Cor 2:14

[MHGinTN]

Put another way:
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1st Cor 2:14

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. Romans 8:7

[Seven_0]

This is the climax toward which Paul’s reasoning in this chapter has been pointing. It is not enough to be convinced of the excellence of the law or to acknowledge the wisdom and justice of its obligations. It is not enough to consent unto it as good or even to delight in its precepts. No amount of earnest striving after obedience will avail against the law of sin in the members, until the struggling sinner surrenders in faith to Christ. Then surrender to a person takes the place of legalistic obedience to a law. And since it is surrender to a person dearly loved, it is felt as perfect freedom (see SC 19; MH 131; DA 466).

This paragraph is typical SDA teaching. It uses scripture but what I see is “its not enough.” To surrender to Christ sounds easy enough, but the old man cannot do it. When you fail, the accuser is there to remind that you are not good enough. Discouragement eventually turns into dispair.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I am familiar with the SDA teaching. My father was raised in the SDA church until he was excommunicated because he did not meet their standards. My grandparents attended the SDA Church in Battle Creek at the beginning of the 20th century and knew E. G. White. The history should raise a red flag. I do not expect to change your mind, I have disagreed with my own family all my life and we still do not agree. However you will note that the Bible is a very big book and can reveal an error in doctrine. So I continue to proffer scripture and let it do the work.

Consider the prophetic character of history. When God told Abraham to go into “a land that I will shew thee,” the old man went with him. The natural man cannot enter the land of Cannaan, the inheritance is only open to the spiritual man. We try to bring the old man along on our journey and he gets in the way.

When Christ said “he that liveth and believeth in me shall never die,” he was not talking to the natural man. He was talking to the spiritual man about the second death. The natural man will never have victory over sin, and so in Adam, all die, even Christ. But the spiritual man is created in the victory of Christ.

P.S. I have found that I learn more when discussing thing with people when we disagree. When our perspective is farther apart, there is more depth perception. If you have ever played with stereo photography you will understand the analogy.

[SouthernClaire]

Good post and interesting history, Seven. Thanks for sharing it.

[Philsworld]

Do you recall the passage which Ken referred to as an idiomatic expression? If you know what an idiomis, how about explaining to us why you think that was gibberish? Do you recall to which passage he referred?

---

You are joking, right? Oh, you’re not? You’re serious? Are you going to say ONE MORE TIME, CULTIST? are you going to stomp your “widdle” feet? You are going to get the same courtesy you give my posted articles and videos, which is NO SALE. I’m not your monkey, organ grinder. If you want a monkey to dance for you, ping one of your friends.

I can’t remember EXACTLY what you said the last time I asked you to read a posted article or video of mine, but you basically said “drop dead, you adventist cult member, spawn of Satan, White queen worshiping devil worshiper....or very near to that (the good Christian that you say you are)

Every video I’ve seen on Prophecy Watchers is essentially the same, no matter who the special guest is. They all spread the same Jesuit lies. And, they straight up lie by omission. What? you say? I have never heard any of your teachers or prophets say the following, which are all true.

**The early church fathers (ECF) were HISTORICISTS, not FUTURISTS.
**The ECF UNANIMOUSLY said that he restrainer of the Antichrist was Pagan Rome, NOT the Holy Spirit.
**Every Protestant Reformer identified the Antichrist power as the Catholic Church...EVERY SINGLE ONE.
**The ECF and the Protestant Reformers rejected the GAP THEORY, chopping off Daniel’s 70th week and putting it 2000+ years into the future.
**The Catholic Church commissioned the JESUITS to come up with diversionary theories of who the Antichrist was and when he/it would show up. THEY CAME UP WITH PRETERISM AND FUTURISM to deflect criticism that they were the Antichrist power
**FUTURISM is the pre trib rapture theory minus the rapture of the church just before the tribulation. It’s otherwise EXACTLY the same.
**Ribera published his theory of FUTURISM IN 1591. Guess how many Protestants bought into it? ZERO, ZERO, ZERO. Why? because it comes directly from Satan himself. So, for almost 300 years the Protestants told the Catholic church, NO SALE, LIARS.
**Enter Margaret Macdonald, Edward Irving, and Darby and you have the new and improved pre trib rapture FUTURISM theory.

Have you ever heard any of this on Prophecy Watchers? What about from (Dr) Ken Johnson? No you have not. Andy Woods is your pastor, you told me yourself. You could ask him about it. But, you won’t, will you? And the reason is because YOU DON’T WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH. All you want to hear is what your itching ears want to hear. You are pathetic and sad, Organ Grinder. You just continue to spread the lies. You are a dishonest Christian by never mentioning the above FACTS, as are ALL of your teachers and prophets. Very sad indeed that you call yourself a Christian and omit vital facts. It is dishonesty in it’s highest form.

WHY WON’T YOUR TEACHERS AND PROPHETS TALK ABOUT IT?

[Iscool]

Replacement? This ain’t replacement - did you read the Bible about the gentiles being grafted in? Did you read that there is no Jew and no Greek? The community of God has continually spread from one man - Abraham to a tribe to a nation to the world. As Paul said, we are all Abraham’s children.

So you figure we Gentiles get thrown into Israel??? Saved and unsaved Jews and Gentile Christians...All in one bunch???

[Cronos]

Yes, just as you say there is no Trinity, just God the father

[SouthernClaire]

Intelligent question. Hope you can wrap your head around the answer, Iscool.

[Iscool]

So to understand this clearly - you believe that there is no Trinity, that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are subsumed in “the father”

Of course there's a Trinity...There is just not a Trinity that meets under the cloud that you post as God in your cartoon...

[Iscool]

https://www.facebook.com/nikki.armstrongwiedenhoef/videos/10157489609140518

[Cronos]

Iscool: "Of course there is a TRinity"

Contradicts with your statement: I believe in the bible Trinity... God does not include the Father...

God IS the Father...

[Cronos]

Romans 11

Gentiles Grafted In
11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion[a] mean!

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[b] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

[Seven_0]

I don’t think the picture is a complete picture of the trinity but it represents the view of at least one person. Take the parts that you think are right and add it to other viewpoints and the picture will begin to get clearer. If one illustration were enough, then God would not have needed to give so many. How many sacrifices do we have to help us understand what happened at the “Cross?”

Here is an example you can add to what you already know. God is light and light is a trinity. We are told that the invisible things of him are clearly seen, being understood by things that are made. I’m not saying that God made light, nor did he create light, but properties of light work in this example. In particular, the Doppler effect. If the source of light is moving toward you or away from you the frequency changes thus any frequency can appear to be another frequency depending on speed.

Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

[Iscool]

There is plenty of scripture that tells us the church is not Israel...And there is scripture that shows us that born again Jews are not Israel...So here's Paul talking about Israel...

Rom 11:4  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 

Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 

Out of all of Israel there is a relatively small remnant who have turned to Jesus thru faith...

Rom 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 

And we know that while some Jews of Israel have turned to Jesus, the religious Jews still deny Jesus and like the Catholics and SDAers they are counting on their works to save them...And the non religious Israel have no interest in any kind of religion...And as we can see, Paul again shut that idea down in verse 6...But Paul is working his butt off to get at least some of them saved and into the church...

Rom 11:13  For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 
Rom 11:14  If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 

And so what is hindering Paul???

Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 
Rom 11:8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.  

Rom 11:9  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 
Rom 11:10  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 

And just as a side note here: A lot of you religious folks make the claim that the Jews who reject Jesus are in the same bunch as the muzlims and other religions that reject Jesus...As you can see it isn't so...The others willfully, knowingly reject Jesus and the Trinity...Israel's blinders were temporarily put on them by God...They are still God's chosen people...

Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

And now you know why the Gentile church was created...

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

So Jesus is the root...Those who follow Jesus are the branches...Initialy it was Israel to whom Jesus brought the message of salvation...They are the branches...And for the most part, those branches rejected Jesus...So God broke those branches off from the Tree and blinded them for a couple thousand years...Those broken off branches are Israel...

Jesus turns to the Gentiles and many are more than happy to be grafted into the Tree of Jesus...So we have a bunch of Gentiles and a small remnant of Israel who went along with Jesus and became the church, the body of Christ...And if any of the Jews should open their eyes,

Rom 11:23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 

So is that new group that make up the branches of the tree Israel??? Nope...

Gal_3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek (nor Israel), there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

We are not in Israel...For the most part the vast amount of Israel are non religious pagans and the few religious of Israel are under the Law...And there is no such thing as the New Israel...The promise given to Israel was for a very large piece of real estate...Israel is now setting on a very small portion of that land...We are not in Israel...We are in Christ...

Gal 5:6  For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

The Israel that you want to shove the church into are not of faith but the Law...

Rom 4:13  For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 
Rom 4:14  For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 
Rom 4:15  Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 

[SouthernClaire]

Thanks, Seven, for your input. I very much appreciate the bit about light. God bless!

[Seven_0]

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This verse directs our attention to the fact that some things in Genesis 1were created and some things were made. He used "Created" three times; in the beginning, and on the fifth and sixth days. I believe that represents the body, soul, and spirit. Created things, being things brand new and he made things out of what he had created.

Light does not fit into either of those categories. Not created not made. God is careful in every word and he set "light" apart. He knew the properties of light long before we discovered them and we still have much to discover. We know God is light, What if light is God? I'm just wondering.

[SouthernClaire]

You’ve hit on something I’m very familiar with, Seven! It’s because I’ve had the same thought many a time and got lost in thinking about it. It was during a Bible study that it caught my attention and then going on to seriously parallel the beginning of the Book of John to Genesis’ first chapter. I wasn’t able to let go of the idea for quite some time. You’ve now brought me back to it.

Yes, regarding the made/created in Genesis. There is also a third, formed (Ch. 2). I produced tons of notes on this way back. Good on you for studying it. There is a wealth of information in the creation week of Genesis. It also speaks to distinctions very clearly and to paying attention to detail which, as you can see from this post, I seldom do, so it’s needed desperately by some of us.

God being light could just be a metaphor or … as you suggest, there may be something far deeper going on with that text. The dual nature of it is what grabbed my attention. I would really like to know any more thoughts you have on it.

There is so very much to learn from Genesis 1 and 2. I hate to admit that I marked up my Dad’s Bible so badly when I studied these two chapters over many years that I almost left it so that one couldn’t read it. Most people miss how absolutely fascinating those two chapters can be when studied out. Good on you!!!

Just conjecture, but I believe that Genesis 1 instructs us on how to read the rest of the Bible. What we learn from how we read it should carry through for us on the rest of the Bible.

[Seven_0]

God being light could just be a metaphor or … as you suggest, there may be something far deeper going on with that text. The dual nature of it is what grabbed my attention. I would really like to know any more thoughts you have on it.

"It is the character of the Word of God to leave something to be the reward for diligence." (FW Grant)

If light is simply a metaphor, we still have the task of determining which parts are like God and which parts are different. Romans 5:14 says that Adam is a figure of Christ and the rest of the chapter notes differences between Adam and Christ. We see the shadow but not the very image. The similarities are awesome they’re just not in Romans 5.

The speed of light, which is unchangeable, is certainly a characteristic of God. There was a need to modify some equations in Physics to accommodate this property, which was not known when the Bible was written. The distance between you and a light source is set at any given instant. If a light flashes that is 186,000 miles from you, it will reach you in one second no matter how fast you are moving or what direction you are going.

We know that light from the sun provides all the energy the Earth needs to function. The spiritual side of this is not as clear as I would like it to be. We see through the glass darkly, and I believe that there is always more that we do not see. It is harder to see in dim light. I can identify with Joshua 13:1

I agree with you on Genesis 1 and 2 that they set the path for the rest of scripture but patterns need more chapters to develop. The meaning of all seven numbers of the week are introduced and continue through the rest of the Bible.