Posted on 02/25/2021 8:31:53 PM PST by GardenerForLife
Raised in a protestant/evangelical faith based congregation.
NOTHING a pope or prophet or apostle can do to wash away your sins.
Why not just look to Christ, instead of mortal men?
Ah yes, the go-to verse to desperately seek a loophole to get out of Gods Holy Law. There were holidays (holy days) then just as now. As a Christian are you mandated or forbidden to observe Christmas(?) or the Fourth of July? Or is it up to you? Emperors famously declared their birthdays or some war memorial a holiday. As far as the Sabbaths referred to here, there are two additional Sabbaths mentioned in the OT for the Israelite s to keep. Nothing much to see here. The Ten Commandments are a unit wrote by the Hand of God on stone signifying permanence. There is a copy in Heaven in the Ark of the heavenly Covenant.
Jesus kept the Sabbath. Are you greater than He or know more than He did(does)?
I think that's a nice way to put it but the reality was much different.
First of all Christians were persecuted tremendously. The bible record shows that the Jewish establishment did not like Christians. They were going against the orthodoxy of the church. They didn't fit it. They were radicals. That's the main reason there weren't many Jewish Christians left.
Later though it became worse. Rome ruled Judea at the time of Jesus and beyond. Judea had a series of violent rebellions against Rome. Even in times of non-active rebellion Jewish fanatics, zealots, were actively working against Rome and many times assassinating Jewish collaborators and Roman officials. This of course came to a head in 70 AD with the sacking of Jerusalem by Rome and the destruction of the temple.
After this it became increasingly difficult to identify as jewish in the Roman empire. You were an object of scorn and hatred. These are the roots of anti-semitism.
You are correct though that in the eyes of Rome Christians didn't SEEM that much different than Jewish people. They kept the same holy days. They refused to eat animals that God said not to eat.
So what happened is that the timid Christians stopped keeping the holy days. They started eating pork and what not. In other words they changed their religion to become more acceptable to Rome...to avoid persecution. THESE are the roots of modern Christianity.
In other words modern Christianity is the result of those who wanted to avoid persecution and so avoided looking Jewish as much as they could. They ended up observing pagan days that were acceptable...dressed up of course as "christian" days...instead of observing the days that God set forth as HIS days in scripture.
My point in using the term "Biblical Christians" was merely a way to refer to Christians that were alive in new testament times...the Christian's we read about in the bible...biblical Christians....versus those who were alive in post biblical times.
As I said in an earlier post the holy spirit is the father active work in our reality. What we perceive as the holy spirit is NOT a person SEPARATE from the father or son....it is them in our reality.
If poke you with my finger through a blanket you wouldn't think that what you feel poking you is another person. It's still me. You just can't perceive it because I'm hidden behind a blanket. That poke you feel IS the holy spirit of God...or the force of God himself in our lives.
(KJV) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In older versions or translations in this verse (and many others) the holy spirit is referred to to by using "which"....indicating it's not another person. This is correct grammatically. However many modern translations have opted to go against what is grammatically correct and instead insert a "whom" where it does not belong.
The point is that using pronouns incorrectly does NOT make something a different person....or a person at all.
The pope ie overseer. The prophet. The apostle. Each had a function to perform in the kingdom of heaven that has been inaugurated since the resurrectionThe pentecost
The pope ie overseer. The prophet. The apostle. Each had a function to perform in the kingdom of heaven that has been inaugurated since the resurrectionThe pentecost
That’s not a go to verse, rather one of the verses taken in conjunction with
>Matthew 28:1: “Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.”
Mark 16:2: “Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.”
Acts 20:7: “Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.”
I Corinthians 16:2: “On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper that there be no collections when I come.”
Remember Mark 2:27 says, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” and
“One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God,” (Rom. 14:5-6).
Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath and inaugurated a new covenant with the celebration on the Lords day, Domenica
Then why aren't you doing the same? Are you better than He?
Paul and the two Marys did stuff on the first day of the week. Okay, what's your point?
The Sabbath was made for man and not the other way around. Seems common sense. God didn't make a special holiday and say I must make somebody to keep it. It was made for our benefit.
Jesus said "If ye love Me, keep My Commandments". Which do you love more? Your denomination or Jesus? Your observance of the Sabbath answers the question.
Why do I need to do what Jesus has already done. Jesus is God and Lord of the Sabbath.
As a follower of Jesus, I hark to His new covenant, and to the Day of the lord, the Lord’s day, Domenica.
Jesus said to keep His commandments of loving God and loving one’s fellow man
Led, not lead.
Lead is what bullets and wheel weights are made of.
No reason. You can carry on lying, murdering and fornicating. He fulfilled the Law so you're good to go.
As a follower of Jesus
A follower of Jesus would follow His example of living. Including keeping the Sabbath. This weeds out the posers.
Jesus said to keep His commandments of loving God and loving one’s fellow man.
The Ten Commandments hinges on those two principles.
Jesus taught us that He is Lord of the Sabbath and we celebrate HIS resurrection on Domenica.
Jesus gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath." With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing. "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."
Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week." Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica)
>Matthew 28:1: "Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb."
Mark 16:2: "Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen."
Acts 20:7: "Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight."
I Corinthians 16:2: "On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper that there be no collections when I come."
Remember Mark 2:27 says, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." and
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God," (Rom. 14:5-6).and
"Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col. 2:16-17).A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to act as your judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as the mere shadow of what is to come (Jesus), the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath. This is in reference to Isaiah 1:13 13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
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Besides "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight," (Acts 20:7).
as imadrmd1 wrote The people of Christ met originally in the evening pf the Roman midnight-to-midnight day of which the time before sundown was still Sabbath. To the Jew, the evening was the beginning of the sundown-to-sundown first day of the week.
"And upon the first dayof the weekσαββατων (sabbaton), when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight" (Acts 20:7 AV).
For at least 30 years after the resurrection/ascension of Jesus (Pentecost was on the first day of the week, likewise) the disciples met in the evening of the day of which the daylight was still Jewish Sabbath, thereby not violating Jewish sensitivities.
"Upon the first day of the weekσαββατων let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come" (1 Cor. 16:2 AV).
The Corinthians were commanded by Paul to meet on the first of the week and have their tithes ready to be gathered each week.
The whole week is a heptad, a bundle of seven, a week of days, a "sabbath" of days, wherein the last day for Jews was set aside for rest from work. But the evenin of that last day is the first day of a new sabbath of days, hence it is also a (new) sabbath.
If you are a sabbatarian, avvording to the law you musy stay at home, go no place, and do no woek. But also if you wish to thus come inder the Law, you must obey the law, all of it, without fail. And doing so will send you to Hades/Hell in it in any way. You cannot be a Christian and be a sabbatarian.
Thanks = I did not read your earlier post.
However, note that
But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God (1 Corinthians 2:10).
Now I beg you, brethren, through the Lord Jesus Christ, and through the love of the Spirit, that you strive together with me in your prayers to God for me (Romans 15:30).
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30).
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insult the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:29).
That does seem a separate part of the Godhead
I, personally, see the Word of God as God's way of interacting with the material world and the Spirit of God as God's way of interacting with the spiritual world.
Yes, that's true
They were going against the orthodoxy of the church Sanhedrin
yes, they did as did Jesus
. They didn't fit it. They were radicals. -- they were not radicals per se, but their concept of the Messiah didn't fit with the Sadducees or Pharisees. however it did resonate with the people
That's the main reason there weren't many Jewish Christians left. -- but that's my point, there WERE many Jewish Christians - that's why the Jesus-movement was a threat right until 132 AD
Quite a statement. Being as to how, Jesus, the Disciples and Paul were both. Where is the Clear and unmistakable commandment transferring the solemnity and Observance from the Sabbath to Sunday? All you show is actions on the first day of the week. Sabbath started at Creation as a memorial. Jesus observed it all of His life on earth and in death. Matthew 24:20 asks observers to pray that your flight NOT be on the Sabbath in the future destruction of Jerusalem. This event occurred 70 years after His death. As I have said earlier there is a copy of the Ten Commandments in Heaven in the ark. Do you reckon God scratched out His own Words and wrote in replacement Words?Too bad about Moses, he was a Sabbatarian. He won't go to Heaven in your delusional theology.
Well again it was a threat ONLY because it looked too Jewish. As soon as enough people abandoned the outward signs that made them look too much like Jews the Roman government was okay with it. Anti-semitism was so deeply ingrained into Rome that it followed was a strong force in the early history of protestants today.
The notion that Jesus changed the commandments of God is just plain silly. He didn't make up new commandments.
Breaking God's sabbath goes against what Jesus taught as well.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God," (Rom. 14:5-6).
This verse has zero to do with sabbaths or holy days. The greek words that mean sabbath or holy day are NOT present anywhere in Romans 14. This verse is clearly about eating practices and when read in context that's crystal clear. However in their zeal to do their own thing and preserve their own traditions modern Christianity has twisted them to mean something that they were never meant to mean.
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