1 Thes 4:17 has nothing to do with the pre-trib rapture
1 Thess 4:13-17 or rather the whole 1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.And very clearly in verse 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification.
What does this actually teach?
St. Paul wrote to the Thessalnian Christians because they were worried about those who died before Christ's return. Many in the ancient world believed that a person simply ceased to exist upon death.
These was a rumor in Thessalonica at the time Paul wrote the letter that the dead Christians had lost out on any chance of a physical resurrection. St.Paul assures them that it was not so. In fact, "the dead in Christ will rise first" to meet Christ
Rapturists make the mistake of thinking "meet the Lord in the air" is about Christ not actually touching the earth.
The word St. Paul uses for meeting the Lord "in the air" is aer the Greek word for atmosphere
This SAME word is used in Ephesians 2:2
And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.yet no one would claim that, because of this word, Satan wouldn't influence people on the earth
A consistent rapturist reading of this wod here would mean that only airplane passengers are influenced by Satan's power
NO, when Christ returns to the earth's atmosphere, He has returned to earth
>Rapturists trying to point to the "coming in the clouds" -- but this ignores the symbol of divinity in the clouds
The Bible uses three Greek words interchangeably
Rapturists think that there is a different usage for each, but that is false - parousia is not used just for some fake "rapture" and the others for the 2nd coming
Paul doesn't mention this 19th century rapture idea as occuring before the appearance of the antichrist and before the second coming is simple: it never entered into his mind that anyone would believe Christ would rapture His Church before the final Eschaton
In the apocalypse, that is referred to as the battle with Gog and Magog, Christians will participate in that confrontation because there will be no secret rapture before it. Our comfort rests in Him who will emerge from that confrontation as the Victor.
THAT is the reassurance Paul offers, not the promise of an escape from the great Tribulation.
Here is a link to
THE STORY OF SCOFIELD’S LIFE
by
EMMA MOORE WESTON
Condensed from J. M. Canfield’s book
“The Incredible Scofield”
“In 1833, Elias and Abigail Scofield moved to Lenawee County, Michigan to help her father operate a sawmill on the Raisin River. Their home was on a cleared farm along the river.
They had four daughters from three to seventeen years of age. Their last child, Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, was born August 19, 1843. His mother died three months later. Not long after, Elias married again.
The older sisters soon married. Emeline married Sylvester V. Papin, from a prominent French family of St. Louis, March 19,1850. He was a law student and became a clerk in the City Assessor’s office and later became head of the department. In 1855, Laura married a young dentist, William Eames. They moved to Lebanon, Tennessee. Cyrus’s sister, Victorine, was listed in the 1860 Census in Tennessee, as living with Laura and William.
Cyrus was not listed in the census records in either state. By April 1861, when Fort Sumter was fired upon, Cyrus was visiting his sisters in Tennessee. He never returned to Michigan.
Though not yet eighteen, Cyrus gave his age as twenty-one and enlisted in the Seventh Regiment of the Tennessee Infantry. In April 1862, he was listed as a patient in a hospital in Richmond, Virginia. There was no mention of a wound, so he may have become ill.
In July, he wrote to the Confederate Secretary of War asking for exemption from further duty stating that he was a minor and a citizen of Michigan. He also claimed that he had been visiting his sister in Tennessee when he enlisted, that he had never voted in the South and that his health was broken by exposure and battle fatigue. He promised that in a short time he would enter the militia in Tennessee.
On September 5, 1862, Cyrus was with the Tennessee Regiment when they crossed the Potomac during heavy fighting. A discharge was issued for Private Scofield in 1862 after one year of service. There is no definite record of where he was for the next four years.
Among the refugees forced out of the South by the war were the Lames family and Victorine Scofield. They moved to St. Louis, Missouri in 1863 where Sylvester Papin helped Lames open a dentistry office. Victorine married and settled there so that was also the place Cyrus settled. Sylvester placed Cyrus in his office in the Assessor’s Department and directed his training in law.
While working in this office, Cyrus studied to become familiar with the law regarding land grants, titles, and deeds. He got his law education on the job rather than in school. His name is listed in connection with a case in Circuit Court of St. Louis County, December term, 1866. This is the first definite date that appears in Cyrus’s life after the Civil War.. .” . .
https://www.gospeltruth.net/scofield.htm
First, I don’t agree that it is denying what Christ said, second, you still haven’t explained what 1 Thes 4:13-17 means. When I read those verses I see in 14 a confirmation of 1 Cor 15:1-4, and in 15 we are told those who are still alive will not precede those who have died. Once that occurs, then in 17 those who are ALIVE will be caught up together in the clouds to meet Christ.
That can’t be more clear to me what that means.
Now the discussion is when-Pre, mid or post.
Your jump from atmosphere to earth makes your case for you. What is the explanation of the use of the word Harpazo (seized, carried off by force; snatch out or away), in the context of 1 Thes 4:13-17?
When the Rapture comes......and it will....
....the dead in Christ shall rise first, and those of us remaining ( Christians) will be caught up into the skies.....to Heaven
It’s really that simple to those who believe....
..
...and that complex to those who don’t
You’ve allowed hideous slander by this person to be printed on this forum......absolute apostate junk from whomever this man is.
WHY?
What is your goal?
You don’t think we know about apostasy in some churches?many churches
I assure you many on this forum are very aware.
Your own words are confusing.
You’ve been on this forum a good many years.....
IF I have misread, or misinterpreted you, I will apologize.
Salvation is not confusing!
There WILL be a Rapture.....
I don’t know when .....no one does.....
....save Christ
We are to live as if it is today!