This means that the destruction of Jeruslame led to all the tribes of the land of Israel mourning
Posted on 10/03/2020 1:24:47 AM PDT by Cronos
Lunar dates... verify beyond any reasonable doubt that from the DAy of Atonement 1988 through the Day of Atonement 1995 is the 70th week of Daniel (This single fact is the unchallengeable proof that this book is correct and true)
(Excerpt) Read more at scribd.com ...
Probably true. I believe in the pre trib rapture. I do not, however, make a big deal out of it. Others make reasonable arguments for a rapture at other times. So be it. We can discuss the issue. What I will not budge on, even one single millimeter, is the plan of salvation. It is by grace, not by works, and eternal life begins here on earth, not when we kick the bucket.
If someone waits that long to see if they earned Heaven, it’s almost a 99.99% ironclad guarantee, they will reap the whirlwind 🔥 A word to the wise. Don’t wait that long. 😁🤗
Now to the "the end is not yet"
| Matthew | Luke |
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Christ foretells the destruction of the temple, with the signs that shall come before it and before the last judgment. We must always watch. [1] And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple. [2] And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed. [3] And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world? [4] And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: [5] For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many. [6] And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [7] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places: [8] Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows. [9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name's sake. [10] And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another. [11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. [12] And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold. [13] But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. [14] And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come. [15] When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand. [16] Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains: [17] And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat. [19] And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days. [20] But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath. [21] For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. [22] And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened. [23] Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him. [24] For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. [25] Behold I have told it to you, beforehand. [26] If therefore they shall say to you: Behold he is in the desert, go ye not out: Behold he is in the closets, believe it not. [27] For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be. [28] Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together. [29] And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty. |
The widow's mites. The signs that should forerun the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world. [1] And looking on, he saw the rich men cast their gifts into the treasury. [2] And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in two brass mites. [3] And he said: Verily I say to you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: [4] For all these have of their abundance cast into the offerings of God: but she of her want, hath cast in all the living that she had. [5] And some saying of the temple, that it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said: [6] These things which you see, the days will come in which there shall not be left a stone upon a stone that shall not be thrown down. [7] And they asked him, saying: Master, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when they shall begin to come to pass? [8] Who said: Take heed you be not seduced; for many will come in my name, saying, I am he; and the time is at hand: go ye not therefore after them. [9] And when you shall hear of wars and seditions, be not terrified: these things must first come to pass; but the end is not yet presently. [10] Then he said to them: Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. [11] And there shall be great earthquakes in divers places, and pestilences, and famines, and terrors from heaven; and there shall be great signs. [12] But before all these things, they will lay their hands upon you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, dragging you before kings and governors, for my name's sake. [13] And it shall happen unto you for a testimony. [14] Lay it up therefore into your hearts, not to meditate before how you shall answer: [15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to resist and gainsay. [16] And you shall be betrayed by your parents and brethren, and kinsmen and friends; and some of you they will put to death. [17] And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake. [18] But a hair of your head shall not perish. [19] In your patience you shall possess your souls. [20] And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with an army; then know that the desolation thereof is at hand. [21] Then let those who are in Judea, flee to the mountains; and those who are in the midst thereof, depart out: and those who are in the countries, not enter into it. [22] For these are the days of vengeance, that all things may be fulfilled, that are written. [23] But woe to them that are with child, and give suck in those days; for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. [24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword; and shall be led away captives into all nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles; till the times of the nations be fulfilled. [25] And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, by reason of the confusion of the roaring of the sea and of the waves; [26] Men withering away for fear, and expectation of what shall come upon the whole world. For the powers of heaven shall be moved; [27] And then they shall see the Son of man coming in a cloud, with great power and majesty. [28] But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads, because your redemption is at hand. [29] And he spoke to them in a similitude. See the fig tree, and all the trees: [30] When they now shoot forth their fruit, you know that summer is nigh; [31] So you also, when you shall see these things come to pass, know that the kingdom of God is at hand. [32] Amen, I say to you, this generation shall not pass away, till all things be fulfilled. [33] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. [34] And take heed to yourselves, lest perhaps your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly. [35] For as a snare shall it come upon all that sit upon the face of the whole earth. [36] Watch ye, therefore, praying at all times, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are to come, and to stand before the Son of man. [37] And in the daytime, he was teaching in the temple; but at night, going out, he abode in the mount that is called Olivet. [38] And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, to hear him. |
Look closely at what happened before the "the end is not yet"
And Luke pretty much the same.
But what are the signs?
"Imposters and deceivers persuaded the multitude to follow them into the wilderness, and pretended that they would exhibit manifest wonders and signs that should be performed by the providence of God. And manyt hat were prevailed on by them suffered the punishments of their folly - Josephus, Jewish antiquities XX, 8:6St. Jerome also wrote about them in the 4th century: At the time of the Jewish captivitiy, there were many leaders who declared themselves to be Christs, So that while the Romans were actually besieging them, there were three factions within -- this is a reference to the armies of Simon and John who fought each other as well as fought the Sanhedrin's followers INSIDE Jerusalem (yes, the Jews had a civil war right in the middle of their war with the Romans!)
From jerusalem they went out into the world,... by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of GodEusebius "the teaching of the new covenant was borne to all nations and at once the Romans besieged Jerusalem and destroyed it and the temple.
Remember that Jesus told them something counter-intuitive - people fled to a fortified city like Jerusalem for protection, but the Christians fled OUT of Jerusalem -- what idiots the locals must have thought.
Eusebius recorded that the Christians fled in 68 AD because of the prophecy of Jesus
The whole body, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, entrusted to men fo approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella
You then ask, what about 30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.
Right?
Joesphus writes that
There was a star resembling a sword which stood over Jerusalem and a comet, that continued a whole year. Before the Jews' rebellion so great a light shone roudn the altar and the holy house, that it appeared tob e bright daytime; which lasted for half and hour... Moreover the eastern gate of the inner court of the Temple.. was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night... the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord... so these publicly declared that the sign foreshadowed the desolation that was coming upon them... a few days after before sunet, chariots and troops of soldiers int heir armor were seen running about among the clouds... Moreover at that feast, as the priests were going by night into the inner court of the temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that , in the first place, they felt a quaking and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude
Remember that Jesus came to JUDGE the generation that rejected Him in 33 AD - within a generation (40 years)
This means that the destruction of Jeruslame led to all the tribes of the land of Israel mourning
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.Why did Paul write to the Thessalonian Jesus-movement followers? Because they were worried about those who died before Christ's return
This is apparent in the text
And then it goes on to say
What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny?
Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky
Rapture, as it is popularly understood, is nowhere to be found in this “rapture” passage. Christ will return to resurrect, to purge, to heal, and to establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.
bramps, boatie - This world renewed is going to be our home for eternity, and we have the opportunity to reflect that future in our present. Rapture invites us to escape this world: the last thing that Jesus would have ever taught!
Next, boatie, what is actually written? " that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him." -- God will bring those who have died and bring them with Jesus.
Then it says "we shall always be with the Lord" - no mention of the great tribulation of the 1000 year kingdom
The falsehood in your denial of my refutation is there for all to see
Romans 2 5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6 who will repay everyone according to his works:[c] 7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, 8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.And Galatians
5.4 "For whatsoever is born of God, overcometh the world: and this is the victory which overcometh the world, our faith." -- Not a bare, speculative, or dead faith; but a faith that worketh by charity. Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charityHorrifyingly, daniel, your false 'church' of one is as the other false groups outside orthodoxy -- your teachings are not Christ's and your teachings are as the gates of Hell for multitudes.
Nah, it’s about the Oneness Pentecostals who deny the Trinity. You fundamentally disagree with them and others and yet build your strawmen arguments against orthodoxy, right?
Well; the way I read it differs.
To me; it makes no sense to 'bring with Jesus' those who were allegedly already IN heaven!
Here is the timeline of events:
1. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, andIt would seem to me that those allegedly in Heaven already wouldn't need to 'meet' the Lord in the air; as they would have already met Him in Heaven and been handling the prayers of Catholics.
2. the dead in Christ will rise first.
3. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
I've no clue where a person's 'spirit' and 'soul' are located until that time.
Therefore; I conclude that no one NEEDS to know!
This whole thing is merely another angelic sock hop upon the head of a pin.
I can't see which way we swing on this 'question' is going to make any difference at all to a person's salvation.
BINGO!
Wrong - from one in an fractured one true visible church - since besides the fact that you fundamentally disagree with Catholics whom Rome considers to be members, then unlike your church, I do not consider our fellowship to be only one true one, while as you can claim as regards some of your members, I fundamentally concur on core teachings (and more) necessary for salvation with multitudes, and even consider some Catholics to be born of the Spirit, due to them being of them to seeing past false teachings of Rome, and with broken heart and contrite spirit believe on risen the Lord Jesus to save them on His account, by His sinless shed blood, not the merit of their church or themselves and thus follow Him. But those who believe a different gospel, whether classed under Protestantism or Catholicism, are not part of the body of Christ, but are damned. However, if you are going to require comprehensive doctrinal unity, or include beliefs such as Lutheran Real Presence as necessary for salvation, then you are not even a modern RC, and are one of the classes of Catholics in dissent from V2.
"The Orthodox Church opposes the Roman doctrines of universal papal jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate Conception precisely because they are untraditional." "The Orthodox Church presents a fundamentally different approach to theology, because She possesses a fundamentally different experience of Christ and life in Him. To put it bluntly, she knows a different Christ from that of the Roman Catholic Church.” - Orthodox apologist and author Clark Carlton: THE WAY: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church, 1997, p 135; A Note for Evangelicals Considering Rome: http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/tca_carltonrome.aspx
Then there are those who attempt to join together all Christian religions into one faith. They would be horrified at the idea of a service with Hindus and Christians celebrating together, yet they do not bat an eyelash at the idea of Orthodox celebrating with Roman Catholics, who with no authority broke off from the Church close to a thousand years ago. — http://www.orthodox.net/articles/against-ecumenism.html
And the feeling can be mutual:
Few Catholics realize that Eastern Orthodoxy, especially as represented by Palamite theology, represents a systematic and comprehensive attack upon Catholic doctrine. Catholic and Orthodox theology are not only in opposition to one another in their understanding of God (theology), but also in the various disciplines of philosophy – in Cosmology, Psychology, Epistemology, Metaphysics, Theodicy, and Ethics. They posit radically different views of God, of man, and of the relationship between God and His creation... Over the past 2,000 years there have been many heresies, schisms, and systems of thought comprehensively opposed to Catholicism. But none has carried the potential threat for corruption of all of Catholic dogma which Eastern Orthodoxy represents. — http://www.waragainstbeing.com/partiii
Your teachings fundamentally disagree with the teachings of Christ, so your church of one is highly elitist, right?
Your manifest bombast is wrong again, for you have utterly failed to show how I fundamentally disagree with the teachings of Christ, while it is your church whose distinctive teachings are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels).
And rather than being an ecclesiastically elitist as yourself, the only church I hold to be the one true one is the mystical body of Christ made up of souls who have come to God as souls as sinners knowing their desperate need of salvation, and not as souls saved by their works or church affiliation, but as destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just judgment and gain eternal life.
And who with contrite hearts placed all their faith in the Divine Christ as the Lord and Savior, who died for our sins and is risen to reign in glory, (1 Peter 2:24; 328,22) and who declare this living faith in following their Lord with humble hearts, (Acts 8:36,37; 10:43–47; 15:7–9) and repent when convicted in heart of not doing so. (Psalm 34:218) Thanks be to God.
May God peradventure grant you "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25)
Which verse is wholly consistent with what I patiently documented and explained to you, that faith and works go together, and thus to be 'not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39) is to "keep my works unto the end." (Revelation 2:26)
And which is also consistent with the fact that faith is the cause of works, and it is the former that appropriates justification, of heart-purifying faith being counted for righteousness, even as "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Romans 4:3) - believing that God could and would provide what He alone could promise - long before he so profoundly manifested that faith in effectively offering up his first born, believing that God who miraculously enabled him to have this son could also raise him from the dead. (Hebrews 11:19)
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans ) (Romans 4:21-25; 5:1-2)
And Galatians 5.4 "For whatsoever is born of God, overcometh the world: and this is the victory which overcometh the world, our faith." -- Not a bare, speculative, or dead faith; but a faith that worketh by charity. Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity
Indeed, and which is entirely consistent with that I consistently said more than once, though ignored, that of being made "accepted in the Beloved" (Eph. 1:6) on Christ's account, living effectual Abrahamic-type faith [Not a bare, speculative, or dead faith] being counted for righteousness," (Rm. 4:5)
Horrifyingly, daniel, your false 'church' of one is as the other false groups outside orthodoxy -- your teachings are not Christ's and your teachings are as the gates of Hell for multitudes.
I see that you have been reduced to effectively ignoring what I documented and resort to more mere assertions that you can only wish were true. Go find a reasonable RC to argue your case since you evidently remain ignorant or obtuse or are simply in denial.
It has to do with those souls/spirits of the dead in Christ along with those still living being changed together into their glorified bodies:
I often questioned why for many years churches forbid cremation since there's nothing but dust in those graves after so many years plus the unfortunate ones who were blown to smithereens in bombs or eaten by sea creatures. But there is some way that God will raise our corrupt, mortal bodies wherever they may be and transform them into immortal, incorruptible bodies in which we will remain for eternity. I believe the souls/spirits of those who have died ARE with Christ at this moment - I reject the idea of "soul sleep". Plus...they aren't "handling" anyone's prayers. God is fully capable of hearing them all. :o)
You don’t consider your fellowship to be the only true one or you don’t consider your fellowship to be even true?
And what fellowship? You fundamentally disagree with Lutherans, with Mennonites, with Oneness Pentecostals, with Adventists, etc. At the core, the fellowship you speak of is just you, right?
Good for you
Then you add to it with the only church I hold to be the one true one is the mystical body of Christ made up of souls who have come to God as souls as sinners knowing their desperate need of salvation, and not as souls saved by their works or church affiliation, but as destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just judgment and gain eternal life. -- that IS the Catholic Church. To be saved it is as Jesus Christ told us - repent, believe, be baptized, eat of His body and endure to the end.
instead why do you believe in 19th century fantasies like the pre-tribulation rapture?
That is irrelevant, since the context is that of your listing of disagreements among Prots in your vain attempt to negate my statement regarding greater unity among those who most strongly esteem Scripture as the wholly reliable, wholly God-inspired authoritative word of God vs those whom Rome manifestly considers members.
Then you add to it with the only church I hold to be the one true one is the mystical body of Christ made up of souls who have come to God as souls as sinners knowing their desperate need of salvation, and not as souls saved by their works or church affiliation, but as destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just judgment and gain eternal life. -- that IS the Catholic Church. To be saved it is as Jesus Christ told us - repent, believe, be baptized, eat of His body and endure to the end.
How i wish it was, but it is not not, since Catholics are taught that they "have truly merited eternal life" by their very works, (Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 32) even if they attempt to justify this by asserting they merit salvation "by grace" and which to them typically means they think they will go to Heaven because they are pretty good, with some expectation of mercy. And in the Catholic gospel "full salvation" means that one is justified by actually becoming good enough to be with God, usually through her mythical Purgatory versus heart-purifying effectual Abrahamic-type faith being counted for righteousness. Thus few ever come to the point of true conversion by recognizing they are not saved by their works or church affiliation and have come to God as as sinners as destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just judgment and gain eternal life. And who with contrite hearts placed all their faith in the Divine Christ as the Lord and Savior, who died for our sins and is risen to reign in glory, (1 Peter 2:24; 328,22) and who declare this living faith in following their Lord with humble hearts, (Acts 8:36,37; 10:43–47; 15:7–9) and repent when convicted in heart of not doing so. (Psalm 34:218) Thanks be to God.
In contrast to testimonies of regeneration, we much have many variations of,
I feel when my numbers up I will appoach a large table and St.Peter will be there with an enormous scale of justice by his side. We will see our life in a movie...the things that we did for the benefit of others will be for the plus side of the scale..the other stuff,,not so good will..well, be on the negative side..and so its a very interesting job Pete has. I wonder if he pushes a button for the elevator down for the losers...and what .sideways for those heading for purgatory..the half way house....lets wait and see.... ” http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4098202&postcount=2
instead why do you believe in 19th century fantasies like the pre-tribulation rapture?
And just why you think I hold to that which I did not say? What I said (to you upthread) "the next transformative experience that is manifestly taught being that of being made like Christ in the resurrection" refers to the "the first resurrection,"(Revelation 20:6) the "resurrection of life," versus the "resurrection of damnation," (Jn. 5:39) a thousand years after the first. (Revelation 20:5)
Regardless, one can differ and be wrong on eschatology (which Rome is) yet be a redeemed believer (which only a relative few Catholics sadly are). .
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