Islam vs. Judaism - a comparison {General discussion}

Diffen ^ | 2 July 2019 | Diffen

[Cronos]

Judaism is the oldest of all the Abrahamic religions. Its founding prophet is Moses, who had been chosen by God to lead the Israelite slaves out of Egypt. Camped under Mount Sinai, Moses gave the Israelite slaves the Torah of their God, and after wandering in the desert for 40 years, they went to live in what is now known as Israel, which they believe is God's gift to them.

Jews trace their Abrahamic lineage through his son, Isaac.

Islam was founded by Muhammad in the year 622. Muhammad believed that God chose him to be his prophet and to reveal to his Arab countrymen that there is only one God. Muhammad wrote down the revelations he believed he received from God and called it the 'Qur'an.'

Muslims trace their Abrahamic lineage through his son Ismael.

Comparison chart

Differences —Similarities —

Islam versus Judaism comparison chart

	Islam	Judaism
Place of worship	Mosque/masjid, any place which is considered clean by Islamic standards.	Synagogues, Western Wall of the Temple in Jerusalem
Place of origin	Arabian Peninsula, Mecca at Mount Hira.	The Levant
Practices	Five pillars: Testament that there is one God and Muhammad is his messenger (shahadah); prayer five times daily; fast during Ramadan; charity to the poor (zakat); pilgrimage (Hajj).	Prayers 3 times daily, with a fourth prayer added on Shabbat and holidays. Shacarit prayer in the morning, Mincha in the afternoon, Arvit at night; Musaf is an extra Shabbat service.
Use of statues and pictures	Images of God or prophets not permitted. Art takes the form of calligraphy, architecture etc. Muslims distinguish themselves from other groups by not drawing lifelike human works, which could be mistaken as idolatry. No image is representative of God	Ancient times: Not allowed as it is considered Idolatry. Today, great artwork is encouraged. Statues of people are fine, but not as religious icons.
Founder	Prophet Muhammad. According to Islamic scripture, all people who follow God's revealed guidance and the messengers sent with it 'submit' to that guidance, and are considered Muslims (ie. Adam, Moses, Abraham, Jesus, etc.).	Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses
Belief of God	Only one God (monotheism). God is the one True Creator. God has always existed, none existed before him and will exist forever. He transcends life and death. No part of His creation resembles Him, He cannot be seen, but sees all.	One God (monotheism), often called HaShem—Hebrew for 'The Name', or Adonai— 'The Lord'. God is the one True Creator. God has always existed, none existed before him and will exist forever. He transcends life and death.
Life after death	All beings created with reason will be accountable to God Almighty on the Day of Judgement. They will be rewarded for every atom's weight of good, and either forgiven or punished for evil deeds.	World to come, Reincarnation (some groups); unifying with God, there are different opinions and beliefs
Clergy	Imam leads congregational prayer in a mosque. Sheikh, Maulana, Mullah and Mufti	Ancient times: Hereditary privileged priest class--Kohen and Levi. Present day: Religious functionaries like Rabbis, Cantors, Scribes, Mohels.
Human Nature	Humans are born pure and innocent. Upon reaching adolescence, you are responsible for what you do, and must choose right from wrong. Islam also teaches that faith and action go hand-in-hand.	You must choose good from bad. You are responsible for your actions, not thoughts.
Scriptures	The Qur'an, and traditions of the Holy Last messenger Muhammad, called 'Sunnah' which is found in narrations or 'hadiths' by the men around him.	Tanakh (Jewish Bible) , Torah.
Goal of religion	Fulfill gift and responsibility of this life through following the guidance of Holy Quran and Hadith, striving to serve mankind through compassion, justice, trustworthiness, and love for all of God's creation	To celebrate LIFE! To fulfill the Covenant with God. Do good deeds. Help repair the world. Love God with all your heart. Strong social justice ethic.
Means of salvation	Belief in one God, remembrance of God, repentance, fear of God and hope in God's mercy.	Through belief in God and Mitzvot (good deeds).
Literal Meaning	Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law. A Muslim is one who follows Islam.	A Jew (Hebrew: יְהוּדִי, Yehudi (sl.); יְהוּדִים, Yehudim (pl.); Ladino: ג׳ודיו, Djudio (sl.); ג׳ודיוס, Djudios (pl.); Yiddish: ייִד, Yid (sl.); ייִדן, Yidn (pl.))[1] is a member of the Jewish people/ethnicity.
Followers	Muslims	Jews
Confessing sins	Forgiveness must be sought from God, there is no intermediary with him. If any wrong is done against another person or thing, forgiveness must first be sought from them, then from God, as all of God's creation have rights that must not be infringed	Ancient times: there was a sin offering for individuals. Today people individually repair their sins. On Yom Kippur, they confess sins, and ask forgiveness from God. But also they must ask forgiveness directly from any people they may have wronged.
About	Islam consists of individuals who believe in Allah, a deity whose teachings its followers—Muslims—believe were recorded, verbatim, by the god's last prophet, Muhammad.	Judaism is created by Abraham 2000 BCE and his descendants of Issac and Jacob. The Law: the 10 Commandments was given to Moses (and 600 000 Jews who left Egyptian slavery) in c, 1300 BCE to return to Israel and follow God's will.
Geographical distribution and predominance	There are 1.6 billion. By the percentage of the total population in a region considering themselves Muslim, 24.8% in Asia-Oceania, 91.2% in the Middle East-North Africa, 29.6% in Sub-Saharan Africa, around 6.0% in Europe, and 0.6% in the Americas.	Existing in Israel for 1500 years, but the Romans in 70 AD kicked all Jews out. Jews are dispersed all over the world, at one time present in almost every country. Now the majority live in Israel, USA, Canada, Russia, France, England.
Marriage	Islam is totally opposed to monasticism and celibacy. Marriage is an act of Sunnah in Islam and is strongly recommended. Men can only marry the "people of the book" i.e., Abrahamic religions. Women can only marry a Muslim man.	Ancient times: unlimited polygamy with concubinage. In modern times, monogamy officially since 1310 AD.
Original Language(s)	Arabic	Hebrew. Every word has a 3 letter root word. Yiddish: part Hebrew, part German/East European language. Sephardic: part Hebrew, part Arabic language.
God's role in salvation	You are judged according to your efforts to do good and avoid sinful behaviors, oppression, etc. God will judge your deeds and intentions. A person must believe in God and follow His commandments.	Divine revelation of God's law and to judge man's actions. Good deeds, and righteousness. Each New Year, during Yom Kippur, Jews fast and pray for forgiveness from God, and if accepted, are written into the Book of Life, for the next year.
Day of worship	Prayer five times daily is obligatory. Friday is the day of congregational prayer, obligatory for men, but not for women.	Friday at sunset through Saturday sunset, is the Sabbath, THE most Holy Day (yes, all 52 of them). Taking time off from work, once a week, was invented by Judaism. It is more Holy than any other holiday, and is spent in contemplation and prayer.
View of the Buddha	N/A. Islamic scripture does not discuss or mention Gautam Buddha.	N/A.
Belief	Belief in one God, who has sent messengers with revelation and guidance for humanity so they may be guided to good & who have came with both good news and a warning, the last & final messenger being Muhammad صلى الله علي	Jewish central belief is that they have chosen to follow the commandments of the One True God and God will look out for them in return. Every man is equal. Jews believe a Messiah coming and proof will be an end to war and hunger all over the world.
Status of Muhammad	Deeply loved and revered in Islam. The last Prophet, but is not worshipped. Only God (the creator) is worshipped in Islam; God's creation (including prophets) are not considered worthy of worship.	N/A.
Religious Law	Shariah law (derived from Quran and Hadith) governs prayers, business transactions, and individual rights, as well as criminal and governmental laws. Religious debate, or 'Shura' is utilized for practical solutions to contemporary issues	Halakhah. Ethics. Commandments. 613 mitzvahs to be followed. Charity. Prayer. Rabbinical rulings with minority opinions. Debate very important part of system. Debate is encouraged in schools. Part of Bible addresses specific laws for everyday life.
Symbols	Muhammad's name in calligraphy is common. There is also the black standard that says "There is no god but God and Muhammad is the last messenger of God" in Arabic. The star and crescent is not Islam per se; it is inspired by the Ottoman empire.	Star of David, Menorah.
Second coming of Jesus	Affirmed	Denied. (not part of liturgy)
Prophets	God sent thousands of divinely inspired messengers to guide mankind. These include Adam, Solomon, David, Noah, Abraham, Ismail, Issac, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. There are 124,000 prophets, who were sent to all the world's nations.	Moses, and the subsequent Prophets of Israel as told in the Jewish Bible (Tanakh).
Population	1.6 billion Muslims	Around 13-16 Million, debated. Population varies due to conversion (although some types are not recognized by the state of Israel) and "marrying out" (of the faith)
Jesus	Muslims believe Jesus to be a perfect, sinless, highly revered Prophet and a messenger of God. His name in Arabic is Isa ibn Mariam (Jesus the son of Mary). Jesus was immaculately conceived through God, but is not God or the son of God.	A fellow Jew, a respected, learned scholar. Not mentioned in the Jewish texts.
Position of Mary	Mary (Mariam/Miriam) receives significant admiration from Muslims. She is said by the Prophet Muhammad to be one of the four best women that God created. She is free of sin as the mother of Jesus.	Not applicable, as Jews do not believe that Jesus is their Messiah, and therefore, his Jewish mother plays no role in the Jewish religion other than history.
Abrahamic Lineage	The ancestor of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم is Abraham (Ibrahim) through his son Ismael.	Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are thanked every prayer day. Jacob's 12 sons became the 12 tribes of israel. Of these, 10 were lost during Assyrian Exile.
Ressurection of Jesus	Denied because God raised Jesus to him and he will return before end of time to finish his life, correct any confusion about his teachings and restore order to the world.	Denied.
imams identified as	Shiites believe they are the successors of Ali; Sunnis regard them as their clergy.	N/A.
Position of Abraham	A great prophet and a perfect, sinless example of the divine guidance of God.	The first patriarch and father of the Jewish religion. His father was an idol-maker but Abraham did not believe in idolatry or polytheism.
Virtue on which religion is based upon	Tawheed (oneness of God); Peace	Justice.
Holy Days	Ramadan (month of fasting), Eid-ul Adha (feast of the sacrifice), Eid-ul Fitr (sweet festival at the end of Ramadan).	Rosh HaShanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, Simchat Torah, Chanukah, Tu BiShvat, Passover, Lag BaOmer, Shavout. Sabbath most important—one day a week no work, just peace, joy and prayer.
Original Languages	Arabic.	Hebrew common till 500 BCE, Aramaic and Greek koine till 300 CE. Hebrew always for religious services. Local languages and different extinct and living Jewish languages like Carfati, Yiddish, Ladino, Judesmo etc
Use of statues	Not allowed	Forbidden to use in religion
Status of Vedas	N/A	N/A.
Praying to Saints, Mary, and Angel	Shiites ask for Saints' intercession, but, Sunnis do not. Mary is venerated by both Sunnis and Shiites however.	Jews only pray to God. They do not need Rabbis to pray. Each Jew can pray directly to God whenever he or she wants to.
No. of Gods and Godesses	1 God	1 God
Revered People	Prophets, Imams (religious leaders).	The Patriarchs, Moses, various rabbis, and Tzaddics, down through the centuries.
Original Language	Arabic	Hebrew has always been the central language of prayer. From 500 BCE, Aramaic and Greek koine and 'Aramized' Hebrew till 300 CE. Local languages and different extinct and living Jewish languages like Carfati, Yiddish, Ladino, Judesmo.
Spiritual Beings	Angels, demons, spirits, jinn (genies).	Angels, demons, and spirits.
Primary God(s)	Only Allah, who is seen as being all-powerful. "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah." —Surat Al-Ma'idah 5:73	The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel).
On Food/Drink	Muslims are only supposed to eat foods that are considered halal. Pork is forbidden. Requirement for prayer and ritual butchery of meat. Quick and swift slaughter at single point on the throat; blood has to be completely drained.	Jews are required to eat kosher food. Pork is forbidden. Requirement for prayer and ritual butchery of meat. Quick and swift slaughter at single point on the throat; blood has to be completely drained.
Status of women	The prophet said "Do good to and serve your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your father, then the near relatives and then those who come after them." Islam's honoring women is the great status of the mother in Islam.	Equal to men in eyes of God and in the Law (Halakha). Woman traditionally have been granted more equal rights than most other world cultures. Today, traditions among the Orthodox and the Reform movements differ greatly.
Principle	Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One, Allah , the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent." - Quran: Surah Al Ikhlas	By accepting the covenant, they choose to follow God's commandments. A unique ethnicity. Early monotheists.
Concept of God	Ninety nine names and attributes of Allah (God) who is infinite supreme, Sublimely one, all are dependent on him yet he depends on none. Self sufficient. without beginning and without end, and there is nothing comparable to him.	One God
Views on Other Religions	Christians and Jews are regarded as the people of the book, who hold a great deal of respect over materialists but are disbelievers far from the correct path.	All people should obey 7 (Noahide) Commandments, a set of very basic moral laws. Non-Jews should follow their religion, and let Jewish people follow Judaism.
View of Oriental religions	Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Shino are not from following the right path. But, “… And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).” [al-Israa’ 17:15].	Jews accept others can have different religions. Jews must obey the law of the land, if ethical.
Angels	Angels are created from light and remain unseen as they worship and follow God's commands.	Angels serve God as messengers. World is full of beings existing that we cannot see or understand. Kabbalah includes mystical studies of this.
On Race	Races generally viewed as equal, but those that accept Islam are viewed more favorably than those that do not. "Among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors..." —Surat 30:22	Jews believe they are the "chosen people" i.e. descendants of the ancient Israelites are chosen to be in a covenant with God. However, all human beings are God's people, descended from Adam and Eve who were created in the image of God.
View of Jesus	Jesus was a perfect, sinless, highly revered Prophet and a messenger of God. Jesus was immaculately conceived through God, but is not God or the son of God. Jesus did not die but ascended to heaven. So there was no resurrection.	Regular Jewish person, not a messiah.
Status of Adam	Free from all major sins and faults. Adam is the first prophet and man on earth as sent by Allah and he is the father of Humanity, and Muhammad is the last prophet in Islam.	First known use of the Adam/Eve mythology.
Most Common Sects	Sunni, Shia.	Askenaz and Sephardim.
On Clothing	Women must present themselves modestly to cover hair and body shape. Men must be modestly dressed and covered from waist to knee. In most Muslim culture, women wear a form of the hijab; in some, they must wear the full-body cover known as the burqa.	Orthodox men always wear hats; Orthodox women either wear hats or wigs. Orthodox dress is modest.
Time of origin	600 C.E.	c 1300 BC
Important Tenets	The Five Pillars of Islam among Sunni Muslims and the Seven Pillars of Islam among Shia Muslims. The Shia Twelvers also have the Ancillaries of the Faith.	The Law of Moses.
View on Abrahamic religions	Believe that Jews & Christians should accept Muhammad as the final Prophet; believe that Baha'is are wrong in believing that Bah-u-llah is a prophet.	Jews began Abrahamic religions. Christians share early prophets.The Koran also has renditions of these prophets. The New Testament can be viewed as written by Jews for the Jews of that time.
Related Religions	Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i faith	Christianity,
Founders and Early Leaders	Muhammad, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali	Abraham, Moses, David, and many Prophets.
Sacred Texts	While the Qur'an is the only holy text of Islam, the Hadith, which is said to be the sayings of Muhammad, is also highly revered.	Torah
On Money	Zakat (charitable giving). "And know that your possessions and your children are but a trial (fitnah) and that surely with Allah is a mighty reward." —Surat Al-'Anfal 8:28	Tzadaka
Concept of Deity	God (Allah) is the only god and is all-powerful and omniscient.	Belief in one God and teachings of the tradition, prophets and rabbis.

[Cronos]

A question to Jewish scholars (whether Jewish or Christian or agnostic or ...) - what do you see as the differences between modern Judaism and Islam?

I see the differences as (in no particular order): 1. Differences in whether Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac or Ishmael 2. Was the snake in Genesis, was it a fallen angel (Judaism - I think) or a Djinn - Iblis (Islam) 3. Was the Torah corrupted - Judaism "no of course not"; Islam "yes, everything before the quran" 4. Islam - Abraham built the Kaa'ba; Judaism "Nope" 5. Halal and Kosher differ 6. Animal sacrifices are not in place in Judaism any more. In Islam they still are - during Bakri Eid.

There are many others, but I'd like to learn more from those who have a deeper knowledge of Judaism

[Nateman]

The difference is Islam is a curse upon the world and Judaism is a blessing (except for how Jews vote).

[Long Jon No Silver]

You left out the positions of each regarding hitting women. Mad Mo’s plagiarised garbage says its just fine

[Candor7]

Just examine known mythology.The rather hilarious meme by Muslims in the West is that they try and convince Westerners that Allah is the dame entity as the Christian God.Nothing could be further from the truth. The Christian God and his son Jesus are in fact Yahweh and son.

Jehova or Yahweh is a completely different god than Allah. Yahweh is a God who arose in connection with the Jewish people over millennia.

Yahweh:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal

Allah evolved as a composite god, an amalgamation of Baal and Nannar/Sin. This is so readily apparent , Islam still displays the crescent moon that represents the old Mesopotamian goddess Sin.

Nanna / Sin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_(mythology)

Faal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal

[Long Jon No Silver]

Mad Mo was a moon worshiper for sure. Moon struck probably. And you don’t need no protection from the moon. It’s only reflected light. The Sun on the other hand requires being protected from the fiery wrath. Followers of the child abusing prophet pray with their asses pointed to the east. They insult the rising Sun. They pray to the coming darkness.

[daniel1212]

I see the differences as (in no particular order): 1. Differences in whether Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac or Ishmael 2. Was the snake in Genesis, was it a fallen angel (Judaism - I think) or a Djinn - Iblis (Islam) 3. Was the Torah corrupted - Judaism "no of course not"; Islam "yes, everything before the quran" 4. Islam - Abraham built the Kaa'ba; Judaism "Nope" 5. Halal and Kosher differ 6. Animal sacrifices are not in place in Judaism any more. In Islam they still are - during Bakri Eid.

Researcher here, and there are more: one partial list and another here (but true to form, if you search Google or Bing for islam contradictions of the bible then they will provide you as its top result and most others with links to alleged contradictions in the bible, and an overall poor results for what you actually are searching for)

And Quranic contradictions of the Bible are more significant in the light of the fact that the Quran claims to be a successor to Biblical revelation and affirms the integrity of the Book which it builds upon, and thus it cannot truly contradicted it, which it does, esp. the NT.

And in contrast to men such as Joe Smith whose writing also claim to be successor to the Bible, Christ did not truly contradict Scripture but prophetically and doctrinal He and His NT church were built upon the prior revelation of the established authoritative Hebrews Scripture it abundantly invokes and references. Thus the first Christians were devout Jews.

Also, at less than 80,000 words, (figures vary: 77,701 in Arabic by one source,[3] 77,439 by ‘Ata bin Yasar[4]) the Koran is much smaller than the Bible, (602,585 words in the Old Testament; 180,552 in the New = 783,037,[5] with the total words in just the verses in the KJV being counted at 788,258.[6]) The Qur'an is also far more restrictive in in its scope of communication,[7][8] lacking the manner of extensive historical narratives of the Bible, and the context it provides for its commands, as well as genealogical records which helps provide historical chronology. In addition, absent from the Koran are extended doctrinal discourses on salvation, such as are especially seen in the New Testament. (https://www.conservapedia.com/The_Bible_versus_the_Qur%27an)

It seems that when it was discovered that the illiterate Muhammad was ignorant of how he contradicted the Bible then Islam had to come up with the absurd claim that the Bible was corrupted wherever it conflicted with the Quran. But which would entail not simply some changes to the OT but almost a complete rewritting of the NT, which centers around the principle Truth Islam denies, that of the atoning death and resurrection of the Divine Son of God.

That Catholicism could and did engage in such is absurd, for even if it could, then she was extremely negligent, since it would not be hard to add to its texts clear statement to support distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels).

Hope this helps. Peace By Jesus.

[HighSierra5]

I missed the part about blowing people up,chopping heads off,and stabbing.

[BTerclinger]

I'm a Jew. You left off Judaism worships life and islam worships DEATH. Islam is garbage.

"Hamas: "Killing Jews is worship that draws us close to Allah"

This article is garbage, trying to equate the two. Mohamed was a psychopath baby-raping beheader.

And re "islam's view of Jesus". That is MORE BS from someone who never read the koran. NOTHING in the koran makes sense date-wise. They have Jesus in the same time frame as Moses.

This is the essence of the koran:

Read What Every American Needs To Know About The Qur'An - A History Of Islam & The United States,

and visit and bookmark The Religion of Peace dot com.

[FatherofFive]

If you took all weapons from Islamists, there would be peace. If you took all weapons from Israelites, there would be genocide.

[aj2me]

You should add how does a conquering nation treat the conquered.
Under Islam, the conquered are given 3 choices:
1. Convert to Islam
2. Dhimmitude
3. Be Beheaded.

Under Judaism
1. Force you out
2. Stay and vote and protest.

[Ouchthatonehurt]

Comparisons work best with things that share some degree of similarity.

[HarleyD]

I know this might sound a bit insensitive, inflexible, and certainly not PC, but they are both false religions. There are no differences between the two.

There is only one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. Any religion that denies Christ as the Son of God, as we're told, suppresses the truth.

Not a popular message for today but the truth never the less.

[captain_dave]

Like comparing the US constitution with the USSR constitution.

[delchiante]

It is interesting in the book of Revelation ,the book reveals a birth sign for the manchild.

That birth sign can be shown scientifically to be a crescent moon. A tiny sliver. The bible calls it the beginning of months (using the moon) and New Moon Day.

And nowhere near December 25.

Wouldn’t it be ironic that Islam looking for that crescent moon every month actually might observe,in some way, what Christianity and Judaism can’t?

The birth of the Messiah of Israel.

What’s interesting is there are Christians and Jews who also look to that first crescent moon because the bible notes that begins a month.

I’m waiting for the day for the people of faith in any religion to understand why there is a New Moon Day in the Bible.
They won’t learn that from Islam, but Islam seems to know when a new month begins.

Unless one worships the sun as being the only light in the sky for signs and appointments and days and years.

Religions today have one thing in common. They too are deceived by Satan.
Or maybe the statement should be, Satan deceives the whole world because of the religions of the world.

Thankfully the Bible is the source for Truth.
And the source to use to defeat religion.
Even if it is the one you grew up in.

[daniel1212]

I know this might sound a bit insensitive, inflexible, and certainly not PC, but they are both false religions. There are no differences between the two. There is only one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. Any religion that denies Christ as the Son of God, as we're told, suppresses the truth. Not a popular message for today but the truth never the less.

But as a matter of degrees, Islam does not simply deny the incarnation and atoning death of the Divine Son of God and the institution of the promised new covenant, but presents a different Jesus and contrary accounts of what both the Hebrew and Christian scriptures teach. And we are in no way indebted to Islam, versus to the Jews, "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:5) And who are yet beloved for their Father's sake, and await a reversing of the overall judicial blindness and of them (the remnant that is left) embracing Christ as their promised Messiah.

https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/05/05FE5F5794F40677F5E7497B2F765530_The%20Bible,The%20Qur%27an%20&%20Science.pdf

[daniel1212]

Note: that orphaned link at the bottom of my last post was supposed to be part of a separate subject, as in BTW, can you believe the CIA provides this anti-Christ attack on the Bible from a Islamic writer? Deep state at work again.

[Cronos]

Harley — thank you for that comment. It was not insensitive.

I was looking for educated opinions and you’re the first person to voice it so far on this thread.

I know our Jewish friends, nay brothers, will say that to them, Christianity is false - and that makes sense from their religious point of view. We can agree to disagree with them

For me the revelation was understanding that post 2nd temple Judaism is from the Pharisee sect of 2nd temple Judaism and we Christians are from the Jesus-movement sect of 2nd temple Judaism.

That to me explains a lot of things:
1. Why the antagonism - it is a continuation of the 1st century when the two sects were fighting over adherents
2. Why the question about “didn’t Jews convert” - and the answer is “may did - may be even half as it wasn’t converting so much as following a sect of 2nd temple Judaism - the Jesus-movement sect”
3. How we should see the post 2nd temple Jews - as our elder brothers with whom we fundamentally disagree

And more importantly how we should see ourselves as Christians.

Islam, looking at it from a historical point of view is some Bedouin guys taking the aspects of Pharisaical Judaism and mereging it with Christian evangelism and Zoroastrian dualism and pagan Djinn etc. to create a compelling warriors religion.

[Cronos]

In core beliefs there are quite a lot of similarities - with Islam like a “let’s take Judaism and merge with Christian evangelism”

They both have a strong sense of the monad (Tawhid); halakha / sharia as a law system covering every aspect of life; halal / kosher dietary restrictions; circumcision; etc.

They aren’t the same but they are similar

[Cronos]

Danny - you need to separate out and see the differences between the Jews of Jesus' time and the Jews of post 132 AD

In Jesus' time there were 2 streams of Hebraic religion: 1. the Samaritans -- and yes, genetic studies show they have Israelite, even Cohen heritage. They hold to the Torah and reject the later writings

2. The Judeans

The Judeans or as we'd call them "The Jews" from 500 BC to 132 Ad had a number of sects:

1. The Sadducees -- the upholders of the Written Torah and the prophets writings etc

2. The Pharisees upholders of the Oral Torah - for instance the Written Torah says to keep the Sabbath holy but doesn't say how. The Pharisees elaborated on this and created a detailed law centuries later, the Halakha.

3. the Essenes - vegetarian, monastic, rejecting marriage for all. these are the ones Paul writes against.

4. the Zealots (later in the period 40 BC to 132 AD.

5. the Jesus-movement - future Christians

6. the followers of John the Baptist - future Mandaens

... other esoteric "Jewish" sects.

Only the Pharisees and the Jesus-movement sects survived.

the modern day Jews are derived from the Pharisees and revere the Talmud as deep scholarly and religious work - which it is, they have a strict Halakha and uphold the Written and Oral Torah.

The other sects died out with the destruction of the temple in 69 AD - except the Samaritans who had Mt Gerizim.

Now we are not endebted to the modern day Pharisee-derived Jews (refer to the Talmud and specifically the work of Rabbi Ben Zakkai on how he transformed Pharisee-Judaism) -- we are endebted to the 2nd temple Judaism -- and Christianity is a sect of that 2nd-temple Judaism a sister religion to modern-day post-2nd-temple Judaism

[Cronos]

Revelations 12:5 does not mention the moon

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to [a]rule all the [b]nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there [c]she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

there is no crescent moon in the Bible if i recall correctly

As to December 25 - the reason for this is well known -- Christians in the 1st century celebrated March 25th as the annunciation, when Jesus came to Mary's womb - so March + 9 months = December

Next - the "moon" -- Judaism also has a lunar based calendar as does hinduism, not just Islam

Besides which, come on - the day of Pascha - the celebration of Jesus' resurrection, is based on the lunar calendar, which is why the date of Pascha changes every year

Then you say I’m waiting for the day for the people of faith in any religion to understand why there is a New Moon Day in the Bible. -- everyone knows the reason why - because the Hebraic world, like most of the ancient world was LUNAR based, not solar based.

Why do you think we have 30 days in a month?

The Hebrew months are based on the lunar calendar.