When you have true faith you do not worry at all.
Thanks and Amen!
GREAT POST. God has given us very few keys as to timing. We are not appointed to wrath but to salvation. So before wrath is obviously correct.
“[T]hat day shall not com except there come a falling away first, and that may of sin be revealed . . . . “ II Thess 2:3.
God has carefully crafted His description of the timing and the events so that careful readers who get to the end conclude that it is not possible to know even very much about the times and the seasons. An “hour when you think not”.
Ah yes,
The rapture.
One of those American born (dispensationalisms - thank you John Darby) ideas in that sea of 10,000 Christian flavors today where without any true traditions or apostolic succession we just reinvent Christianity.
If Luther would have known the unforeseen consequences...
The longer the practice of abortion continues, the shorter the time before this tribulation thing - of that I’m certain. I had hoped it could have been stopped in the first term of Trump’s reign. Now I’m not so sure he will even have a second chance to stop the slaughter of the innocent. Concerning the question you raise, we may not have long to wait to learn the answer.
To die is to have your nature solidified, as in The due is cast.
Please provide chapter and verse for no Christians will endure life on earth when god pours out his wrath, and what/where in the timeline you consider the wrath occurring - during the great tribulation?
This is a heresy and when the rapture does not happen people will be scandalized out of their faith. This is terrible and I will pray for those who fall for this error
At some point, every believer has wondered if the Rapture is imminent. It’s only natural to ask if Jesus is coming back today, tomorrow, or in fifty years. Now, we know that Jesus told us we can’t know the day or the hour, but we’re pretty sure we are the exception—because we’ve been staring pretty hard at star charts, numbers, newspaper headlines, and yes, even our Bibles, and we’ve cracked the code.
Jesus will return by December 31, 2020. There are millions of pieces of evidence all throughout the Bible, but we’ve narrowed it down to just the top 18. You’ll be convinced—we guarantee it.
1.) He didn’t come back every other time some quack predicted it, so this time it must be true. Every time someone’s come along and claimed that Jesus would come back in 1988, 2000, or 2012, that person’s been wrong. So the law of averages would seem to suggest that we’ve gotta be right at least one time. Maybe this is the one!
2.) The final “TRUMP” has resounded. Donald Trump = fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Make prophecy great again! 3.) We’re not totally sure how Obama ties in, but rest assured it’s all his fault. Thanks, Obama!
4.) 2020 breaks down to the formula 2 x 0 – 1 + 8 = 7, the number of the Lord. Wow! This is powerful evidence that 2020 is the year the great tribulation will kick off.
5.) The sheeple are finally waking up to global conspiracies like chemtrails, the moon landing hoax, and the globe earth myth. The new world order is going to rise up to crush those who have discovered the truth that we’re living on a flat earth and we’re covered in nasty government chem trails. The tribulation will soon follow these upheavals! Stay strong, Christian soldiers!
6.) Something about Israel and a bear and a dragon. Israel is a nation again, and the Bible talks about bears and dragons and harlots and stuff. We’re not sure how that all connects, but you’d better look to the skies. It’s happening!
7.) The 2010 Karate Kid remake. Our top sources in the spiritual realm told us that judgment day was moved up a few centuries once Jaden Smith’s remake of the classic ’80s film hit theatres.
8.) Hal Lindsey got raptured last week, and the Bible says he will be taken roughly one year before everyone else. This fulfillment of biblical prophecy puts the start of the tribulation squarely in 2020. Hal Lindsey’s rapture was just the first fruits of what is coming.
9.) Well, whaddya know. The laptop we’re typing this up on just hit 20% battery life. Coincidence? I think not. Make sure to pay attention to seemingly random numbers throughout your day, and you too can become a biblical numerology expert.
10.) Stranger Things hit in 2016. Stranger Things Season 4 hits in 2020. What does this leave for us in 2018? Nothing but fire and brimstone.
11.) Some guy on the internet told us so in a crazed YouTube video called WEEKLY PROPHECY UPDATE. What’s more reliable than reading prophetic texts with a grounded hermeneutic? Crazed YouTube videos, that’s what! If a guy who calls himself the Third Eagle of the Apocalypse says Jesus is coming back, who are we to question him?
12.) Tim Keller’s church recently pulled off this really weird ballet dance thing that made us kinda uncomfortable. We watched this video earlier this year, and we weren’t sure what we were seeing, but we’re gonna have to err on the side of caution and conclude it’s a pretty clear sign that the coming of the Lord is at hand.
13.) Climate change is making hurricanes and turning the frogs gay. Every time the average global temperature moves up a tick, the Lord is one step closer to whisking us all way to the sky. Not to mention all the hurricanes and gay frogs! Hurry up, Jesus!
14.) The voices in my head told me so. We’ve all been having these crazy dreams where a voice whispers, “Jesus is coming back in 2020” very clearly to us. The voice sounds a little bit like Christopher Walken. Preeeeeeetty sure that’s indisputable proof of a 2020 rapture date.
15.) We bought Chick-fil-A for lunch recently and the total was $20.20. Can you say “sign from God?” Because we sure can!
16.) 2020 backwards is 0202, which probably has something to do with Daniel or Revelation or something. Amazing!
17.) If you stay up for 48 hours straight, drink lots of coffee, and squint really hard at “2020” it kinda looks like Jesus. Try it. It really works! This is just more confirmation that our prophecy is going to come true!
18.) Because nobody will buy a prophecy book that says we simply can’t know when the End Times will kick off. We’re gonna level with you here: we simply can’t sell you a boring line like “Jesus is coming soon, but we’re not sure exactly when, so trust in Him for salvation and pursue holiness.” How many copies would that book sell? 3 or 4? But if we set a date, we’re sure to rake in the big book royalty dollars. There you have it, crystal clear! Now get your affairs in order!
Note: Due to the volatile nature of biblical prophecy, The Babylon Bee reserves the right to retract our prediction after 12:00 a.m. on January 1, 2021, postpone the date by a couple years, and retain all credibility as a source of prophetic predictions. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.
If traffic in The San Francisco Bay Area is any indication of the rapture, I feel cheated...
Well, Pastor Bill, I agree with a lot of your threads, but, as a Historic Premillennialist (HP), this is one I can’t.
It is obvious when reading the ECF (Early Church Fathers) that Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Hermas, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Cyprian, Methodius, and Lactantius, were both “post-trib” and premillennialist. Hence, the “Historic” part of Historic Premillennialist. HP’s are “post-trib” as the pretrib rapture was not invented until about 1600 years later.
In none of the above writers from early church history, none of them gave the slightest hint that they had ever even heard of such a thing as a pretrib rapture.
A rapture, yes, but as Jesus said in his Olivet Discourse, it takes place after the great tribulation.
As for the millennial, Origen was the first we have record of to alegorize the millennial, Augustine advancing that idea, it becoming the eschatology of the RCC later.
As all of the ECF writers I mentioned (Justin Martyr, etc.) believed in a premillennial second coming (a post-trib one, premillennialism is the historic view here also.
Thanks for sharing. I always find your messages to be well-grounded in scripture and encouraging.
I believe that date-setting is an error that has repeatedly led to catastrophe over the years, however there are several scriptures that provide a correct perspective as to what we, as believers, should expect regarding the timing of Christ’s return.
We are to watch expectantly:
Matthew 24:42 (NKJV)
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
We are to wait patiently:
James 5:7 (NKJV)
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 (NKJV)
For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Those who watch expectantly and wait patiently will not be surprised at His return, while those who do not will be taken by surprise:
1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 (NKJV)
For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
Revelation 3:3 (NKJV)
Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
Believers can and should see the Day of Christ’s return approaching:
Hebrews 10:25 (NKJV)
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
I believe that being able to see the Day approaching requires recognizing specific signs that Jesus told us to watch for. These are contained in the Olivet discourse and match the Heavenly vision of the seven seals of Revelation being broken in chapters 5-7. If Christ’s return is currently imminent (i.e. could happen at any moment), then there is no need for signs. However, when these signs do occur, then we are told to “look up for your redemption draws near.”
My belief is that these signs occur during the “beginning of sorrows” and the Great Tribulation, but occur BEFORE the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath.
Revelation 6:17 (NKJV)
For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?
Another important reason is that God wants us to totally trust in and rely upon Him not only for our eternal salvation but for every aspect of our lives. Faith is "believing without seeing". Jesus said:
And the Apostle Peter continues:
Paul wrote of Christ's coming, "Behold, I show you a mystery: we shall not all sleep [die], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Corinthians 15:51,52).
Christ said the dead shall be raised at His coming!
When? At His return; at His coming!
The resurrection does not occur until the moment of Christ's VISIBLE, TUMULTUOUS, POWERFUL, EARTH-SHAKING RETURN!
The Resurrection and
the "Catching Up" of the Saints
Now, notice: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them which sleep [are dead] in Jesus will God bring with Him.
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep [are dead].
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
"THEN [and not one second before!] we which are alive [Paul wrote to the church, the saints] and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:14-18).
Notice that the living saints are not to precede the dead in Christ by so much as a second!
WHEN, then, is the resurrection?
Notice! "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the Firstfruits of them that slept.
"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
"But every man in his own order: Christ the Firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at His coming [parousia]" (1 Corinthians 15:20-23).
Now, notice another graphic, earth-shaking description of Christ's Second Coming:
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and true, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
"His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
"And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.
"And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
"And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
"And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
"That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
"And the remnant were slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of His mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh" (Revelation 19:11-21).
Anyone who believes for one instant there is anything "secretive" about this stupendous series of events is incapable of understanding plain English.
Notice further information about Christ's Second Coming:
"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
"And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
"And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
"But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name" (Zechariah 14:1-9).
This great earthquake is also mentioned in Revelation 16:17-19, in connection with Christ's coming to smash the power of the ten kings comprising the Beast power (Revelation 17:12-14).
Clearly, the prophecy includes the battle of Armageddon (Daniel 11:40-45; Revelation 16:14-16), and the Second Coming of Christ to destroy these arms gathered against Jerusalem!
The time element is inescapable. "His feet shall stand IN THAT DAY UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES" is as plain as the nose on your face!
Christ is not coming in "two phases," first, "for" His saints prior to the Tribulation and Day of the Lord, and then, "with" His saints afterwards!
Clearly, the living saints will not precede those who have died down through the ages; those martyred in the first century, including Peter, James, and Paul! Instead, they are to be either resurrected, or changed, in a moment, in the "twinkling of an eye" AT THE LAST TRUMP!
The last trump is the last of the seven trumpet plagues, at the moment of the great earthquake, and the Second Coming of Christ!
What Difference Does it All Make?
Why should someone who believes in the "rapture" get ANGRY when shown, from the Bible, that the so-called "secret rapture" is a myth?
If Christ is going to redeem the saved; if Christ is coming to catch up His people, including the dead in Christ, and descend with them to the mount of Olives in the same day, then His true followers will be SAVED, will they not?
They will be born of God by a resurrection, or an instantaneous change, will they not? (1 Corinthians 15:50-52).
They will then come down from the clouds, perhaps anywhere from 10 to 40,000 feet above the earth, in this earth's atmosphere, and will be with Christ as He begins to rule this earth with a rod of iron.
What is so wrong with these wondrous promises of your Bible that "pretribulationists" and "secret rapturists" seem to violently object?
It is simply this: Somehow, they cannot bring themselves to believe the "saved" could suffer any harm! For some reason, an insidious false assumption has crept into the minds of millions of people, an assumption which says God would not think of allowing His saints to come to any physical harm! No, any such terrible event is reserved only for the wicked, so they think! What they do not realize is that such a false assumption makes them out to be better than Christ!
Did not Christ say, "If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also"? Did He not say, "In this world ye shall tribulation"? Did He not say, "The time will come when they that killeth you will think they do God a service"?
Another equation in this false assumption is that martyrdom is reserved for the spiritually weak!
Those who cling to the false notion of "church eras" point out how God will allegedly throw those in the so-called "Laodicean attitude" of lukewarmness into the Great Tribulation, while spiriting away into a desert wilderness the "good" people in the "Philadelphian era."
According to this scenario, those closest to God; those on fire with zeal; those with the most faith, the most works, the most spiritual character, will be PROTECTED from the Tribulation, miraculously "taken to a place of safety."
But those who are less faithful, not so close to God; those without zeal; those who are lukewarm, who have weak spiritual character, will be chosen as God's martyrs!
As they suffer, they will realize how terribly weak, and lukewarm they have been, as the theory goes, and, under torture and eventual death, they will repent!
But WHO did God choose as His martyrs?
Look at the list: Jesus Christ, Peter, James, Paul, Stephen, Antipas, dozens of others in the first century. Read the eleventh chapter of Hebrews, how God's greatest prophets were oftentimes martyred for their faith.
John saw a vision of the witness of two prophets, two human beings who will personally testify against the Beast and the False Prophet! Their Prophecy is to take place during the Tribulation!
"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
"These are the two olive trees [mentioned in symbol in Zechariah 4:3], and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
"These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [the abyss—a spiritual metaphor] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
"And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.
"And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
"And they heard a great voice out from heaven saying unto them, ‘Come up hither,’ And they ascended to heaven [this earth's atmosphere, where vapors form clouds—not the "third heaven" of God's throne] in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted: and gave glory to the God of heaven" (Revelation 11:2-13).
These two men are in Jerusalem all during the Tribulation and the Day Of the Lord. Their three and one-half year's testimony coincides exactly with the "time of Jacob's trouble," of three and one-half years; with the "times of the Gentiles" of three and one-half years; with the "treading down of Jerusalem" of three and one-half years!
God gives them power far above that of Moses or Elijah. The plagues they call down upon sinning mankind, upon the Beast and False Prophet, are global in nature, not national, or local, as in the former cases.
These two prophets, the "two witnesses" of the future, are human beings, converted, Spirit-led SAINTS! They are Christ's servants, conducting the last-minute, FINAL phase of God's work on this earth of PERSONALLY witnessing to the Beast and False Prophet in the name of Christ!
What happens to them?
They are martyred!
When the Beast is finally able to "make war" against them, overcome them, and kill them, the Bible does not tell us specifically how they die. You can be sure it will not be pleasant! Yet, after lying dead in the street for three and one-half days, they are obviously resurrected, and will be given eternal life! Are these two great prophets "Laodicean"?
Are they "left behind" when the saints are "raptured," or the so-called "Philadelphia era" goes to a "place of safety"?
Do they suffer a horrible death because they are spiritually inferior?
No, God does not choose the spiritually WEAK, the lukewarm, to be His martyrs!
Instead, He chooses those who are so close to God that they literally count all things in this life "as dung" (Philippians 3:8) in comparison with the Kingdom of God, and eternal life!
"Rapturists," like "survivalists" and "escapists," have their minds on the preservation of this physical life!
Jesus Christ tells them that those who seek to save their lives in this world, who have their minds on physical things, are likely to lose out on salvation!
No, God is NOT going to "rapture" away His saints secretly. The lady with the bumper sticker will not suddenly disappear through her roof, after all!
Let us not trust in false hopes, but in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and God the Father, Who loves us, and Who promises eternal life with Him in His Kingdom to all those who "endure unto the end," whether that means the end of our own physical lives or the end of the Tribulation and the Day of the Lord!
Bkmk
Say, has other post-tribs noticed there used to be a great many post-trib videos on youtube, now they have mysteriously vanished. And for the same reason the owners of youtube have been busy scrubbing out videos that disagree with their liberal agenda, no doubt.
Its been a while since I posted to a thread here on FR about the timing of the rapture. What I observe here now is different. Whatever the bitter spirit behind the scrubbing out of post-trib videos, seems to be now on FR.
The pretribs seem to have gotten uptight with all this pandemic going on. They thought they’d be raptured out of here now apparently. (MHGinTN is a prime example of what I am talking about.)
Well, if this pandemic has gotten them in a dither, they haven’t seen nothing yet. The further we move along towards the great tribulation without them being raptured out, the worse they are going to get. More shrill, hateful and threatening.
I'm really sorry y'all were "Left Behind". It's great up here. How's that Tribulation stuff working out for ya? There are rumors of some kind of pandemic or something.
Each camp doubles down on its own conformity model of consensus of whichever persuasion, complete with “proof texts” for all sides. Nobody need change into something nice because it's always the ignorant other guy who has it wrong and needs a good smiting because the master hasn't come back yet to settle disputes and after all, somebody has to “keep the faith.”.
Same type of settled mindset would reject the real Jesus for not removing his ballcap when coming through the door, because if anyone should be aware of head covering etiquette, it would be him.
There's building that place of heaven on earth, patterned after the heavenly abode, and then there's the place of outer darkness, where there is the weeping and gnashing of teeth. Everyone keeps busy with his preferred home construction project, his dream house.
For some odd reason, those who invested all of their time creating Thugopolis will be shocked, offended, and downright livid when they receive the keys to 123 Living Hell Dr. at the closing.
As if God couldn't wait to foul up His own living room.
Pastor, did you think your cogent sermon would generate this much ... strife? Pastor, that’s a good sign! Luke warms don’t give a pigs ear either way.