Sorry, the Shroud of Turin Is Definitely a Hoax

http://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/02/24/sorry-the-shroud-of-turin-is-definitely-a-hoax ^ | Spencer Alexander McDaniel

[annalex]

[...]

Conclusion

So, here’s the evidence I have presented for why the Shroud of Turin is clearly a hoax:

• The forger who made the Shroud of Turin confessed and the earliest definitive mention of the shroud in any historical source is a record of his confession.
• The Shroud of Turin doesn’t match the kinds of funerary wrappings used in Judaea in the time of Jesus or the description of Jesus’s own funerary wrappings given in the Gospel of John.
• The linen of the Shroud of Turin has been securely dated using radiocarbon dating to between c. 1260 and c. 1390 AD—well over a millennium after Jesus’s death.
• The figure on the Shroud of Turin does not have anatomically correct proportions and much more closely resembles figures in fourteenth-century Gothic art than a real human being.
• The bloodstains on the Shroud of Turin are not consistent with how blood actually flows naturally and they instead appear to have been painted on.
• The fabric of the Shroud of Turin is made with a kind of weave that is known to have been commonly used during the Late Middle Ages, but does not seem to have been used for burial shrouds in Judaea in the first century AD.

All the evidence points to the inexorable conclusion that the Shroud of Turin is a late medieval hoax.

The fact that the Shroud of Turin is a hoax doesn’t make it any less interesting as a historical artifact; it may be a hoax, but it is still an extremely famous hoax that is probably around seven hundred years old and that can reveal a lot about the nature of religious hoaxes in late medieval France. The Shroud of Turin is worth studying, then, not as an authentic ancient relic, but rather as an authentic medieval religious artifact.

[...]

[Swordmaker]

I went to a three day seminar on the Shroud and the consensus of all the scientists there concluded the Shroud real. The carbon dating was taken from a repair done in the 13th cent. and there is no way the technology of the 13th. cent could have produced it; one example is you can’t see any image unless you’re 18ft from it whereas the closer you get to a painting the more detail you see. You see no detail whatsoever the closer you get. Another thing. The image is on the fibers rather than IN the fiber as if it was painted. There’s more.

It is highly unlikely that the repair was a 13th Century patch job. . . The French Invisible Reweaving technique was only invented in France in the 15th Century as near as can be pinned down. That puts the earliest that repair job could have been done as sometimes in the 1400s. Most likely date is in the 1500s. There was the fire of 1532 where patching was done, so a likely time frame for repairs. Another reported repair was done by the Queen of Italy in the mid-1600s but no records of what was done.

[LukeL]

I would add that people confess to things they have not done all the time. Think of all the people who have claimed to know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. A confession without evidence is meaningless

[Swordmaker]

There is an artist sketch from about 200-300 AD, if memory serves me, that contains a triangle of holes in the facsimile sketch exactly where they are in reality.

Are you perhaps thinking of the Hungarian Pray Codex from the 12-13th Century with the four poker holes? The triangular patches came from the fire of 1532 when molten silver from the casket it was stored in burned through one multiple folded corner of the Shroud. The so-called poker holes predate all of that. The provenance of the Hungarian Pray Codex shows the Shroud and it has a reliable dating prior to the Shroud appearing in Lirey France.

[thesearethetimes...]

LOL

[Swordmaker]

This article is a Hoax!! NO ONE SAW Jesus's image UNTIL an X-RAY showed it!!!!

WHY would someone FAKE the Shroud image when NO ONE COULD SEE IT!!!

STUPID ANTI-CHRISTIAN CRAP.

No, X-rays had nothing to do with it. The Shroud is a Quasi-Photographic negative, but when photographed, which was first done by Italian photographer Secondo Pia in 1898, turns the photographic negative into a QUASI-POSITIVE PHOTO did anyone realize that was what was there.

In actual fact, scientific study has shown it is NOT any kind of a photograph or even a light generated image. There is no light artifacting on the Shroud’s image such as a photograph would show, such as a shadow.

The image on the Shroud is more complex than ever thought because it is actually an analog two-dimensional representational database of a 3D terrain map of the body the cloth once covered. The 3D data can actually be accurately reconstructed in detail from the data stored on that cloth. The darkness of the image is proportionate to the distance of the body part to the cloth. I.e. the closer the body part, the darker the image is.

Surprisingly, the image was created by whatever force in only a completely vertically collimated direction with apparently no deviation from that vector, both up and down. There is NO variation in any other direction at all, giving the image a very fine resolution. What ever force does it, attenuated very quickly to nothing within a few centimeters of the body.

This mysterious unknown force also showed some internal structures of the body, including the orbits of the eyes, the teeth in the mouth, and the fine bones of the hands and feet. The distance it acted was just enough that with computer enhancement, we now know that the Man on the Shroud was circumcised.

We know of no force that can act that way to fulfill all of those phenomena.

[Ann Archy]

DUH ,, THAT’S WHAT I WAS SAYING!!

[SkyDancer]

But the carbon dating was done on the repairs, not the actual Shroud.

[Doc91678]

If the shroud of Turin is a fake who had the technology to create it?
Factually, was the art of that type of photography known and possible during the 12th to 14th centuries?

[Doc91678]

On a separate study, Dr. Alan Whanger, he was able to see two coins that covered each eye. On further observation, he was able to see the markings of the coins used during the time of Tiberius Caesar, who was the emperor at the time of Christ. This proves that the image was in fact from 29 AD because those coins were only found during that time period. Not only that, it proves that the shroud was in fact from Israel. This was the official time stamp.
The Shroud of Turin New Evidence was discovered by Dame Isabel Piczek, a Particle Physicist. She was able to observe from the image that there was a strange dividing element. From this she created a 3 dimensional object and found that the body was not pressed against the ground and that the image was perfect. This meant that the cloth was stretched out and the body was hovering at the time, the image was created.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6362250

[Swordmaker]

I'd be interested to see a reproduction of the Shroud 'burn' image using even modern technology. Could it actually be reproduced?

It’s been tried multiple times and every attempt has failed in fundamental ways. It has to meet many criteria to qualify as “reproducing” the Shroud of Turin to meet scientific standards. First there must be no pigments. Most fail that way. Secondly, it can not be a char, because we know the image on the Shroud is not a char, it wasn’t burned into the Shroud. Chars fluoresce under ultraviolet light waves. The image on the Shroud does not fluoresce, while the charred areas from the 1532 fire does. Thirdly, it cannot be a photograph with any trace of a fixative chemical to hold the image, because there are no fixative chemicals on the Shroud holding the image areas. Any thing that duplicates the Shroud has to be undetectable down to the Electron-microspectroscopic level for such things as pigments, photographic fixative, etc. We are talking down to individual molecules and even atoms here.

What a LOT of these skeptics don’t seem to know, because they just ignore the state of modern Shroud science is that we KNOW what the image is made of . . . It’s made of what, for some reason we have no clue about how it happens, are slightly older aged Linen fibers that appear to be more aged than those around them and that appearance is only on the surface of those fibers, that appearance only goes an almost infinitesimal depth into the fiber’s surface. . . That part of the surface only in the soap bubble thin coating of the Soapwort fullering that was used when the Linen was soaked BEFORE it was ever spun into a thread, hank bleached, and then woven into a cloth. The image ONLY appears in that 100 Ångstrom thin surface. It is something that cannot be applied by any known method by a person. It doesn’t soak into the fiber at all, nor penetrate.

However that does NOT explain how this pyro-chemical (heat related chemical), melanoidin Maillard Reaction, which is similar to the way newspaper yellows with age, and bread turns brown in an oven, or closer yet your Grandmother’s white wedding dress is now a pastel beige-yellow, resulted in a high-definition image of a Man on a cloth without the use of any lens, artifact, of known force. (See above for the other criteria for the image.) Most of the attempts at making a reproduction Shroud lack obviously that high-definition, or if they have it, they fail due to using something that is obviously showing up as pigment, fixative, or fail in another criteria not found on the shroud, and many lack good 3D quality. Recall also they are working backwards with the knowledge of what they have to reproduce. Whoever made the Shroud, if it was done by a man in the 14th Century, had no idea about any of that. A sheet with sheep’s blood would likely have done as well, given the state of artistic representation of the time.

Almost all of the attempts have gone with transfer pigments from human or statue, heat char from statue, chemical burning on statue, and photographic from statue or human model approaches. They ALL fail by failing the testing for pigments, fixatives, and/or not matching the real shroud’s image modality, thus the attempts not showing it was an artifact of man made artistry.

[Swordmaker]

There are traces of limestone silica on the bottom of the feet and elbow that only can come from the steps on where this man tread on his way to crucifixion. No where else in the world is this type of silica found. Did the person who created the TS in the MA sprinkle some of it there to help authenticate the TS? Was the pollen which is only found in that part of Jerusalem purposely placed there as well? How does one account for the incredible body detail that was medically unknown at that time?

Good question. . . But our putative 14th Century polymath would have a real problem because some of the pollen found on the Shroud comes from a small plant that grew only in the Jerusalem area up until about 600AD, then went extinct. He’d have a really hard time knowing that, then finding that pollen. It took a Plant Biologist who specialized in pollen of that area to recognize that particular pollen for what it was. He teaches that subject in Jerusalem. It isn’t going to be something just found blowing around in the wind.

[annalex]

Thank you very much. Do you mind if I repost this, or would you like to do it yourself? I have a “space” (forum) on Quora that is widely read, and young Spencer Alexander also posts there.

His historical arguments are better quality than this; this one was disappointing.

[cloudmountain]

They had a full scale replica of the shroud (a photographic image) and up close all you see are smudges but when you stand back about 18 feet you see the negative image; you can see the wounds on the back vividly.

That would have brought me to tears.

[SkyDancer]

It did us. What that person when through. I’ll post a picture of the Shroud when I can find it in my notes. Whomever that person was, Yeshua or ? the beating was horrible.

[annalex]

Thank you all for the responses.

I want to add this observation. The argument about face proportions being unrealistic is hokey as well.

The eye line is over the Man on the Shroud eyes, but it is below the actor's eyes.

The above-the-line part of the Shroud's Face is not "a little over 1/3": tripling it would reach the bottom of the picture, where realistic people have the base of the neck.

Finally, the actual Face on the Shroud has a white smudge at the top of the head. The image Spencer-Alexander uses has that part cropped rather arbitrarily.

Measure from the white smudge to the true eye position, and from there to the likely base of the chin, -- not to the edge of the beard, -- and you get about half and half proportions.

[Swordmaker]

Why would blood “flow” from a crucified “corpse”?

Pooled blood from the abdomen will flow for sometime. Blood that comes from a traumatized person has a high bilirubin content doesn’t clot well and also separates into red blood and serum and will also flow much better than normal blood. It also stays red when staining. That which flowed from the Lancia (spear) wound in the side shows that was exactly what it was, as it formed a corona of clear serous fluid around the core of red blood. When the body was moved, it drained from the pleural sac and abdomen.

Depending on where wounds exist, a body will continue to drain from a dead body until the blood clots with exposure to air.

Other blood flowed while the Man on the Shroud was still living, hanging from the cross, from the effects of a very severe beating and flogging with a Roman Flagrum.

I once made a Roman Flagrum for a lecture series on the Shroud I was presenting. It consists of a wooden handle with a leather wrapped handle and three leather thongs. At the end of each eighteen inch long thong were two 3/8 inch lead balls. I had no idea what a vicious weapon that Flagrum was. My homemade one was a bit simpler than this one, but close:

Just a moderate swing with that Flagrum would imbed those balls 1/2” deep into a four by eight piece of pine wood. I wasn’t even putting any effort into it. Think what that would do to human skin if it went that deep into hard wood. Think what a willful, hard swing would do. Just such a Flagrum is what Pontius Pilate ordered used on Jesus Christ with the intent to let him go. Think of the trauma this created in the body and bilirubin released.

The number of double-wounds from the scourging counted on the body, legs, and arms of the man on the Shroud is over 135 and appear to have been applied by two men of differing heights from two different directions.

[cloudmountain]

It did us. What that person when through. I’ll post a picture of the Shroud when I can find it in my notes. Whomever that person was, Yeshua or ? the beating was horrible.

That "person" was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, second person of the Blessed Trinity.
He died for our sins.

The beating was ... there isn't a word profound enough to describe it.

His life and death were so important that our view of TIME is measured by Him.
B.C. = Before Christ (or CE = Common Era)
A.D. = Anno Domini (or BCE Before Common Era)

[Swordmaker]

It doesn’t flow; it congeals at the lowest point of the body.

Uh carriage_hill? In livor mortis, first the blood has to flow to the lowest point of the body after death. . . it still can flow for a while, even though it is not being pumped there, under the force of gravity.

[SkyDancer]

I don't use either BCE or CE because it takes away from Yeshua's life on Earth. What is the Common Era? Anyway here's a copy of the Shroud.

Copy original Shroud. Notice you can't see any image no matter how you try.

All you see are smudges. You tell me some MA artist was able to accomplish that.

[Bommer]

Ok I’ll bite. Recreate one! Its already been verified as not being painted on. Make one with whatever technology they had 2000 years ago.