The biggest threat to Christians is the teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture

Noq report ^ | 23 May 2019 | Jd Rucker

[Cronos]

....The vast majority of popular churches teach that believers will be called up to Heaven before the tribulation. Simply stated, the Bible does not support this claim.

...

In many scriptures of the Bible, there is a “falling away” or discussion of great deceptions that are coming to the world. It has been hard for believers in Christ to comprehend the possibility of the masses falling away from Christianity because faith has been a powerful part of society for nearly two millenniums, but we are seeing it today. Moreover, we are seeing the spreading of a seed that will cause further apostasy among believers in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior: the myth of a pre-tribulation rapture.

The not-so-simple answer is that Satan is pushing this as part of his agenda. It is Satan that rules the earth. His goal is to pull as many people away from the faith as possible, which is why he and his minions began deceiving Christians at their core starting in the early 19th century with the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture. He has brought about and continues to bring about waves of deceptions to pull people away from even considering the Word of the Bible, but this particular deception is to attack those who are wanting to be strong in their faith. It’s designed to shake the spirits of the believers to the point of non-belief.

Think about it. If you make people believe that they are not going to face suffering, that they are “special” and will avoid all of the troubles that will engulf the world, then they are weakened as a result.

[imardmd1]

The generation He is talking about is the one to whom the plain-literal signs in the immediately previous verses have seen, and that has not yet happened. You do not understand what He was saying, brcause it is spiritually discerned, and apparently that resource is not open to you, eh?

[Roman_War_Criminal]

Catholics can believe whatever they want.
Our Blessed Hope is what we long for - those truly saved by Christ and who long for His Reign.

It would be a threat to those who despise Christianity, because their clock is about to expire.

Not surprised that the devil has upped his attacks against God’s Word & Promises. You see where it comes from.

[blue-duncan]

“Show me a writing from 300 A.D. that speaks to Rapture and is not conflated with the Second Coming of Christ.”

Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) “Against Heresies” 5.29

“And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD) “Treatises of Cyprian”

“We who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible. Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent?”

Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD) “On The Last Times”2,

“Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”

[David]

The counting of the two 3 1/2 yer periods of the Tribulation begins with the peace treaty/compact signed by the man of sin with Israel.

You are entitled to believe whatever you choose to believe--however that is patently not true.

However you translate the words, they say that he will "confirm" a treaty; doesn't say the periods begin then.

In this case, if the words contemplate an existing treaty (such as the Interim Status Agreement 7 year performance standards); some considerable part of the initial half of the period may have already passed. Point is to read the material carefully--the language used does not literally translate into a period description (except at the time of the Abomination of Desolation event read in conjunction with the words of Jesus in the Ollivet Discourse in Matt 24:15 et seq..

[Roman_War_Criminal]

That’s why Paul wrote about it in multiple books and Jesus talked about it in John 14.

You don’t have to believe in it (could give a damn if you do or don’t), but don’t lie and say it’s invented in the 1800’s because it is Scriptural.

[Roman_War_Criminal]

Yes he exhibits a behavior possessed by a spirit of delusion and back-biting as well demonstrating FALSE WITNESS.

Proverbs 25:23
Psalm 101:5
Leviticus 19:16
1 Timothy 5:13

Best to ignore! ;)

[SaveFerris]

Yep - which is exactly why things are going to play out just as it is written.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

[joseburr]

The creation of the entire pre-Trib rapturist 19th century belief system

That is simply untrue!

Holly Deyo at

standeyo.com

documents how the teaching was present in the first centuries of Christianity.

Is the PREtribulation Rapture a New Teaching?

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/rapture_not_new.htm

"Pre=Trib Teachers before 1830?"

https://raptureforums.com/forums/threads/pre-trib-teachers-before-1830.55736/

https://www.raptureready.com/the-pretribulation-rapture/

New Evidence of a Pre-Tribulation Coming of Christ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s3nkz9Wu-o

Settling the Pre, Mid and Post Tribulation Controversy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx9PKrvpudU

Biblical Evidence for the Pre-Tribulation Catching Away

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Kb79recHo

I'm kind of disgusted to sick of the biblical ignorance of preterists et al--so much so I don't really care to even attempt to dialogue with them any more. But I do think there's a ton of evidence for PRE-TRIB and that that perspective deserves to be heard & prayerfully considered. The above links are quick off-the top of my head etc.

I sometimes wonder why God didn't make it abundantly explicitly clear--no argument--in the Bible. I don't know. Perry Stone would probably say He did.

I don't think it is a super priority to argue about but is worth researching and knowing Biblically why you have the perspective you do on it. I do think it is hazardous to be rigid on a lot of prophetic stuff. God has a habit of springing surprises on us all.

It seems likely to me that the final solution to the issue will surprise all sides. Certainly Christ's first coming surprised the Biblical scholars of His earthly walk days.

To me, the critical issue is that "God did not appoint us to His wrath." That seems, to me, to prevent a Rapture after the Mid-Trib point. And, I think the bulk of the Biblical evidence is on the side of Pre-trib.

I think Perry Stone makes the most sense with his considerable list of reasons to believe Pre-trib. He's a bit strident but tolerable. Certainly he is well researched & Biblically educated as well as historically educated.

Anyway--my 2 cents.

[Cronos]

I just ask the freepers to do the reading for themselves, no more. The book of the apocalypse was written during the AD 60s

1. external evidence: the Syriac version of the book of Revelation begins by stating that it was “written in Patmos, to which John was sent by nero Caesar”. Also the Syriac work “the history of john, the son of Zebedee” states that nero exiled John.

2. internal evidence: Rev 1:9, 2:10, 12:11, 13:15 states that it was written in a time of persecution. Rev 17:9-10 talks of 7 ‘kings’ - the 6th of whom was reigning and the 7th who will reign a short time - note “will reign”. this is nero, the “6th Julio-Claudian emperor” and the 7th was Galba who reigned a few months

3. historical evidence: there was no widespread imperial persecution under Domitian in the 90s

Now if you wish to dispute these go ahead. Just saying “no, it wasn’t” actually weakens your case

[Cronos]

and which occurred in year 70 of our secular calendar.

And it is the Christian calendar, not the secular one. If you wanted a secular one we'd be writing AUC

[Cronos]

finally - as pointed out above, the text of the book of the Apocalypse puts it during the time of persecution in Anatolia and around Patmos and the only time that fits is the persecution of Nero.

No other Roman empire persecution fits until the reign of Diocletian.

So, the entire “The book of the Apocalypse was written AFTER the events it predicted” you state, imardmd1, is as false as that other chestnut “Daniel was written AFTER the prophecies took place”

[joseburr]

Actually, it is a lie that the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine was absent in the first century of Christianity.

[ealgeone]

Do you know what the writer’s credentials are? I could not find any.

[Cronos]

War Criminal — get a bible.

John 14 doesn’t talk about the Rapture

[1] Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me. [2] In my Father’s house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I shall go, and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will take you to myself; that where I am, you also may be. [4] And whither I go you know, and the way you know. [5] Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

[6] Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. [7] If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him. [8] Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. [9] Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, shew us the Father? [10] Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.

[11] Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? [12] Otherwise believe for the very works’ sake. Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do. [13] Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [14] If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do. [15] If you love me, keep my commandments.

[16] And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. [17] The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him: but you shall know him; because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you. [19] Yet a little while: and the world seeth me no more. But you see me: because I live, and you shall live. [20] In that day you shall know, that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

[16] “Paraclete”: That is, a comforter: or also an advocate; inasmuch as by inspiring prayer, he prays, as it were, in us, and pleads for us.

[16] “For ever”: Hence it is evident that this Spirit of Truth was not only promised to the persons of the apostles, but also to their successors through all generations.

[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. [22] Judas saith to him, not the Iscariot: Lord, how is it, that thou wilt manifest thyself to us, and not to the world? [23] Jesus answered, and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not, keepeth not my words. And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father’s who sent me. [25] These things have I spoken to you, abiding with you.

[26] But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you. [27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, do I give unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be afraid. [28] You have heard that I said to you: I go away, and I come unto you. If you loved me, you would indeed be glad, because I go to the Father: for the Father is greater than I. [29] And now I have told you before it comes to pass: that when it shall come to pass, you may believe. [30] I will not now speak many things with you. For the prince of this world cometh, and in me he hath not any thing.

[26] “Teach you all things”: Here the Holy Ghost is promised to the apostles and their successors, particularly, in order to teach them all truth, and to preserve them from error.

[28] “For the Father is greater than I”: It is evident, that Christ our Lord speaks here of himself as he is made man: for as God he is equal to the Father. (See Phil. 2.) Any difficulty of understanding the meaning of these words will vanish, when the relative circumstances of the text here are considered: for Christ being at this time shortly to suffer death, signified to his apostles his human nature by these very words: for as God he could not die. And therefore as he was both God and man, it must follow that according to his humanity he was to die, which the apostles were soon to see and believe, as he expresses, ver. 29. And now I have told you before it come to pass: that when it shall come to pass, you may believe.

[31] But that the world may know, that I love the Father: and as the Father hath given me commandment, so do I: Arise, let us go hence.

[Cronos]

sheesh, the rapturinos really don’t read the Bible -

G Larry - next you’ll hear them trying to tell you that Dan Brown’s theories are true! :)

[joseburr]

Amen. Thanks.

[Mom MD]

This rapturino reads the Bible thank you. Belittle all you want there is well documented scripture support for the pre trib rapture. The final resort of the Fromans is always name calling and smug condescension.

[cuban leaf]

I confess that I’m not big on “credentials”. I spar with leftists on a few sites all the time that constantly attack the source rather than what they say. One of the things I like to point out to them is that the bible proves itself, just like a repair manual for a particular car proves itself, when its information is applied.

And it’s how I feel about that site.

I didn’t happen on it in a vacuum. I read a lot of back and forth from all sides of this issue and after reading it, realized it was the best “goldilocks” source out there. It covers all the bases from BOTH sides without really getting in the weeds more than most would care about.