What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

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[ebb tide]

What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

The Youth Pastoral Office of Magdeburg diocese, Germany, will organize an October 2020 “ecumenical pilgrimage” for young people to Rome.

The motto of the journey is “With Luther to the Pope”. A similar trip was already taken in 2016.

The pilgrimage is co-organized by the regional Protestant State church, although the Protestants repudiate pilgrimages.

On the trip's webpage Mit-Luther-zum-Papst.de, the tour operator, Hans Höffmann, remembers what Pope Francis said to the participants of the 2016 pilgrimage when asked by a youngster: "What is better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis answered in German: "Both of them together!”

Martin Luther attended school in Magdeburg as a boy. As a preacher, he led the city to defect from the Church. Magdeburg became the first major city to publish Luther’s writings.

[ebb tide]

Start with you fellow ex-catholic freepers.

I’m not your search engine.

[ebb tide]

What in the heck are you babbling about?

[imardmd1]

And what "grouping" would that be? Does "it" have a name?

Sure. One form would be "baptsts" who were the form of gathering even during Jesus' earthly ministry of preaching first John Baptist's kingdom of heaven, then after John's death only the Kingdom of God.

Another would be those following the New Covenant doctrines cited by Donatus, a pastor at Carthage, that forced the Catholic infant-baptizing heretics out into the open.

Another would be the reconstruction of genuine local New Testament assemblies adopting the general form suggested by John Nelson Darby and his friends. John was trained as an Anglican, but rejecting episcopacy as a form of church government. Such assemblies are commonly referred to as "Plymouth" brethren, after the locality in England where such assemblies first emerged in the mid-1800s.

But if you had studied the history of Christianity, you would have known about these groups.

[ebb tide]

A sect of many names?

Interesting. Satan has many names, also.

[grey_whiskers]

Another would be those following the New Covenant doctrines cited by Donatus, a pastor at Carthage, that forced the Catholic infant-baptizing heretics out into the open.

Eh, that must be why so many churches have Donuts after the service.

Just Googled Darby. If the article I read is correct, he's the dipstick we have to blame for Hal Lindsey. And dispensationalism.

Incidentally, how did he square the circle of dispensationalism with his idea that the Holy Spirit could speak through any member of the Church?

I think the Pentecostals would have a veritable *cow* over that one.

Dare I say "Holy Cow!" ? /pun> ...and look! A doctrine of men (pre-trib rapture) which (thanks to Jack Chick among others) a lot of American Evangelicals think is *real* Christianity, despite the fact it's very much a Johnny-come-lately.

Fascinating.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"And dispensationalism.

You are a dispensationalist, but just don't know it.

Take the quick test:

1. Do you believe that you live in the Garden of Eden?

2. Do you believe you live under the Theocracy of the Nation of Israel?

3. Do you believe you live during the time between the Garden of Eden and the Flood of Noah?

4. Do you believe you are living in eternity future?

I you answer no to these four questions, you are some kind of dispensationalist.

The only thing in dispute is how many dispensations there are...

[grey_whiskers]

Speaking of dispensations, I think you just fell off of your meds. :-D

[imardmd1]

Cobbler, stick to your own last.

[imardmd1]

Excellent! I’ll remember this approach. Thanks!

[grey_whiskers]

Sorry, I never heard that figure of speech before.

But I thank you for the reference to Darby: it filled in some gaps in my historical knowledge which had been troubling me.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Fortunately, no meds. Plan to keep it that way, Lord willing

So which of those specific dispensations, if any, do you live in,,,??

[grey_whiskers]

Cobbler, stick to your own last.

I've never even seen Dutch Reformed or Christian and Missionary Alliance serving cobbler after the service.

But it would go splendidly with coffee, wouldn't it?

Especially with ice cream...

[metmom]

IOW, you have nothing.

You made the claim.

You back it up.

I’m not proving your unprovable point for you.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

👊

[metmom]

I honestly do not expect you to see it.

[grey_whiskers]

I'd never heard of dispensations as applied to O.T. Times: the only lessons I had on it made the greatest distinction between "Biblical times" (when miracles happened) and everything else. The rest of Church history went about like this:

(we don't talk about the next 1300 years or so). Well, the Dark Ages or something. The Catholic Church's fault, even if they *did* build Cathedrals.

(The Renaissance, Reformation, and Enlightenment all on top of each other)

('Murica! And Protestants and Great Awakening!)

(Israel becomes a nation...batten down the hatches and hope to get Raptured out before it gets really bad. Read your Hal Lindsey!)

...and that was from people who said Catholics were ignorant and easily led.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

So do you live in one of the unique dispensations in the quiz or not grey?

[grey_whiskers]

I quite literally have no idea. For all I know, you're just yanking my chain.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

No. I was laying out three unique dispensations that should be obvious to us all, which we are not living under.

If you recognize you are not living in the Garden of Eden, or under Israel’s theocracy, you too are some kind of dispensationalist.

The only argument after that (which doesn’t interest me) is how many dispensations does Scripture reveal?

Best.

[ebb tide]

Are you saved, metmom?

Do you now know that you’re assured salvation, no matter what sins you have committed or what sins you will commit in the future?

Will you answer that question for all protestants to see?