What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

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[ebb tide]

What Is Better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis: “Both of Them Together”

The Youth Pastoral Office of Magdeburg diocese, Germany, will organize an October 2020 “ecumenical pilgrimage” for young people to Rome.

The motto of the journey is “With Luther to the Pope”. A similar trip was already taken in 2016.

The pilgrimage is co-organized by the regional Protestant State church, although the Protestants repudiate pilgrimages.

On the trip's webpage Mit-Luther-zum-Papst.de, the tour operator, Hans Höffmann, remembers what Pope Francis said to the participants of the 2016 pilgrimage when asked by a youngster: "What is better, Catholic or Protestant? Francis answered in German: "Both of them together!”

Martin Luther attended school in Magdeburg as a boy. As a preacher, he led the city to defect from the Church. Magdeburg became the first major city to publish Luther’s writings.

[Mrs. Don-o]

It's interesting to see you can't explain what St. Paul was actually saying -- remember, the words count! --- so you make a remarkable effort to just explain it away.

I don't blame you for it, I just find it unpersuasive. Jesus is the TRUTH. He is not called by St. Paul the "pillar and foundation" of the truth, because He is the TRUTH. A pillar and foundation (or one could say, pedestal) of the Truth is that which upholds the truth.

Paul is saying ere that the Church (pedestal) upholds the Truth (Christ.)

It's hard to see why a Christian would quibble with Paul on that point.

[Mom MD]

i’m. of the one spinning like a top. Christ is the chief and cornerstone the foundation and the Truth. Nothing holds Him up He holds all things up. Period

[Mrs. Don-o]

What about what St. Paul said?

While Christ holds all things in being --- blessed is His Name --- He also wants to be held. Isn't that an aspect of the Incarnation? Then He had to be held. He needed to be held. How much he loved Mary for that!

The Church Mary's Him forth: receives the Word, gestates the Word, brings Him forth into the world. She is the ultimate Aron Kodesh, the Ark of His presence, the Ark of God. Did He need that? He, Who needs nothing, willed to need it.

Not only that, but to use St. Paul's image, the Church is that pillar that holds Him up like the Torah on a lectern. Woe to us if we do not hold Him up, if we do not exalt Him who first exalted us by creating and sustaining us.

Hold Him up! Every imperative verb in the Gospel tells us this: He is your Lord. Hold Him. Hold Him up.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“What about what St. Paul said?
While Christ holds all things in being -— blessed is His Name -— He also wants to be held.

.....

Where did Paul say “Christ wants to be held?”

[daniel1212]

But though I ain't no canonist, thanks be to God, I know that an infallible dogma has to be intended, not locally or temporarily, but to be binding always, for all.

You can hardly dispute that “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff” (Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam) very explicitly conforms to the formula infallible teaching are know by,

Plus, it can't flatly contradict what was already (previously) taught as binding, because then you would run afoul not of Church Law but of Natural Law, in fact the principle of logic known as the Law of Non-Contradiction.

But a contradiction is a clarification when Rome provides it, despite what so many TradCaths contend.

A papal pronouncement that one absolutely must be a visible ecclesiastical subject of the See of Rome to be saved, would contradict the canonized saints who lived before there even was a See of Rome.

Not so, for Rome can argue that just as in times part Jews were saved without any explicit knowledge of Christ, but once He was manifest then this was necessary, so also souls prior to the papacy could be saved, but once that was manifest, then submission is necessary. If Rome can actually argue that OT and NT believers engaged in praying to created beings in Heaven , then she can certainly argue what I stated.

My other guess is that what these popes were legitimately asserting would be the necessity of being within the union of the Church, and the grave sin of intentionally breaking that unity.

No, the language of statements I provided collectively go beyond being within the union of the Church in some way V2 makes Prots to be so, and instead require one to be in the bosom of Rome, and in submission to the pope, and make the RCC to be the mystical body of Christ.

That would be an interpretation harmonious with all the Catechisms, from VII to VI to Trent to Nicaea and Athanasius and back to the Didache, I think.

Rome's position is that all is harmonious with tradition no matter what you think.

[Mark17]

The council also doesn't support Peter as being the pope as he was not in charge of the council.

I don’t even think Peter was head of the Jerusalem church. I think it was James, the half brother of Jesus, the son of Mary and Joseph. You know, the children of Mary and Joseph, that members of that other religion, think were his cousins. 😁

[ealgeone]

Mrs.D....you're in the wrong age. You belong more with the Gnostics. You've read too much mysticism somewhere in your life.

You've noted you have no biblical training and that is clearly evident.

Below is a link to Dallas Theological Seminary.

This is a free course on John.

There are others as well. I highly recommend this to you.

https://courses.dts.edu/register/gospel-of-john-registration/

[Mom MD]

I literally have no words. I hope you meet the Christ of the Bible someday not the one of the Roman fantasy

[metmom]

The Church Mary's Him forth: receives the Word, gestates the Word, brings Him forth into the world. She is the ultimate Aron Kodesh, the Ark of His presence, the Ark of God. Did He need that? He, Who needs nothing, willed to need it.

Just wow.......

Is all that poetic gobbly gook supposed to mean something or just make everyone feel good?

If Mary is the Ark of the Covenant (which she is not BTW) but supposing she was because she had Jesus living inside of her, then every believer would them become the Ark of the Covenant because Jesus indwells every believer who as been born again/born from above, just like every believer is graced with the same grace that the angel told Mary she was graced with.

[Mark17]

Below is a link to Dallas Theological Seminary.

I personally know several Dallas grads. Good people. One is an ex catholic. 👍

[Mark17]

I literally have no words. I hope you meet the Christ of the Bible someday not the one of the Roman fantasy

+1

[Elsie]

Jesus once asked the disciples...who do you say I am?

After the people's responses were all over the landscape!

[Mrs. Don-o]

"If Mary is the Ark of the Covenant (which she is not BTW) but supposing she was because she had Jesus living inside of her, then every believer would them become the Ark of the Covenant because Jesus indwells every believer who as been born again/born from above, just like every believer is graced with the same grace that the angel told Mary she was graced with."

You ought to find his stunning, metmom:

you got it.

[Mrs. Don-o]

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Our God is an awesome God.

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[Mom MD]

Jesus is our Ark not the other way around.

[Elsie]

The Douay-Rheims Bible was the standard for English-speaking Catholics until about the end of the 19th century, but since then the usual answer to "Which Bible is the best?" is "The one you’ll read."

Amen!

(Although a JW one might have a hard time for a person to understand the true nature of God.)

And then there are the EXTRA Mormon 'scriptures'; which would REALLY confuse a person.
Thank GOD! that they still have the KJV as the FIRST one listed in their Quad!

Even their BoM won't mess with the mind TOO much; as it is mostly KJV run through a blender.

Most all of the 'doctrine' is found in the Doctrines & Covenants portion.

But aware; however; that NONE of the secret stuff they do can be found in ANY of their scriptures.

[Elsie]

Paul says:
"For you may have countless instructors in Christ, but you don't have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Paul DIDN'T say:
You guys need to call ME father.

Paul DID say:
The PHRASE 'father in Christ'.

---

It's SO confusing!!
If he is their 'father'; why does he call them BROTHER?

[Elsie]

Just going out on a limb here, but I am...

...wondering just WHAT has the church loosed lately?
Or in the past??

[Elsie]

For emphasis, Matthew puts those words of Jesus into his gospel twice: Matt. 19:18 AND Matt. 18:18

And to WHOM was He speaking each time??

---

...the disciples

 

Matthew 18

 

¹⁵ “If your brother or sister^[b] sins,^[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. ¹⁶ But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’^{[d] 17} If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

¹⁸ “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be^[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be^[f] loosed in heaven.

¹⁹ “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. ²⁰ For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

 

 

Matthew 19:18    “Which ones?” he inquired.   (Uh... I think you missed this one a bit.)

[ealgeone]

>>"If Mary is the Ark of the Covenant (which she is not BTW) but supposing she was because she had Jesus living inside of her, then every believer would them become the Ark of the Covenant because Jesus indwells every believer who as been born again/born from above, just like every believer is graced with the same grace that the angel told Mary she was graced with."<<

You ought to find his stunning, metmom:

you got it.

IF that is the case then we all have to be "immaculately" conceived as Mary is claimed to have been.

Your Gnostic mysticism is really messing up your theology.

This kind of thinking is a result of not adhering to sound Biblical exegesis but rather is a result of poor Biblical eisegesis.

There is a distinct difference between Christianity and Roman Catholicism.....a glaring distinction.