Posted on 07/23/2019 5:26:09 AM PDT by Cronos
There isn't any book in our hands that is "written by God" --
Firstly, the Bible is a collection of books
Secondly, the various bookS of the Bible were God-inspired. They are the word (little "w") of God, but were written by men who were inspired by God
On the other hand:
TRIBULATION, RAPTURE, SECOND COMING
The Bible affirms the Church, which is the Body of Christ, will not experience “the Great Tribulation” or “the Time of Jacob’s Trouble.” In this period of divine judgment, God will deal with the spiritual blindness and sins of Israel to restore her to Himself. Daniel 9:24-27 is an important passage describing Israel’s history from the desolation of Jerusalem by Babylon (2 Chronicles 36:15-21) to their restoration and blessing under Christ as their King. Believers of this dispensation are not mentioned in this prophecy or any other relating to Israel’s earthly hope or judgment. Our hope is heavenly for the wrath of God due us was on our wondrous Substitute at Calvary (Romans 8:1, 32-39).
2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 states the Day of the Lord, which includes the outpouring of His wrath upon the nations (first 42 months) and Israel, begins at the appearing of “the Man of Sin.” There must be a “taking out of the way” first. Till the Rapture, the work of the Holy Spirit and the presence of the Church restrains the manifestation of this “Wicked One” and therefore God’s wrath.
The Church, having been RAPTURED, will not be God’s witness on earth during that period. 144,000 Jews are raised up preaching a message for the hope of Israel, not the hope of the Church.
In Christ, we are “children of light” and not “of darkness,” saved from the coming wrath appointed for the world (1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:2-9).
Revelation 3:1 0 promises, “I will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon the whole world.” Ours is a “blessed hope,” “a comfort,” an imminent event, “For our citizenship (Young’s Literal) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Savior (Deliverer), the Lord Jesus Christ” (Philippians 3:20).
Is the “Rapture” distinct from Christ’s return to earth?
The second coming of Christ has two segments: the rapture into the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17); the return onto the earth (Zechariah 14:4). The term “rapture,” from the expression “caught up” (1 Thessalonians 4:17), literally means “to snatch away” “The Lord Himself” (verse 16) comes to catch away into the air both the resurrected and living believers to “be with the Lord” (see John 14:3), for He has “not appointed us to wrath” (ch.5:9, 1:10, and Romans 5:9). In contrast, at His return to earth, the Lord comes accompanied by His saints (Zechariah 14:5, Revelation 19:14) and “His mighty angels” (2 Thessalonians 1:7). At this time, He executes wrath, “taking vengeance on them that know not God” (2 Thessalonians 1:8).
Another distinction in 1 Thessalonians is that Paul saw the Rapture as imminent; it could happen even while he wrote, since “we which are alive” (4:15, 17) included himself. He says the Thessalonians were presently waiting for “His Son from heaven” (1:10, see Titus 2:13). Again, in contrast the return to earth requires fulfilled signs (Matthew 24:3, 6, 15, 21, 29-30) before it will occur. It could not happen today. In addition, the expression, “the coming of the Son of Man” is linked only to His earthly return. Further, the change in both sleeping and living saints at the Rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-53) was a mystery revealed only in the N.T. It had not been prophesied in O.T. portions regarding our Lord’s return to earth.
Does 2 Thessalonians 2:7 toach that the Spirit of God will no longer be in the world after the Rapture?
Implicit in the question is the truth that the Holy Spirit of God, in His unique relation to the church (John 14:16), is the “Restrainer” in verse 7. This restraint will be removed at the Rapture, allowing the Man of Sin to be “revealed in his time” (verse 6). However, John saw in heaven “a multitude, which no man could number” “which came out of great tribulation” (Revelation 7:9, 14). These, together with the living “sheep” (Matthew 25:33), were born again in the tribulation after the rapture of the Church. The Spirit must then be operating on earth after the Rapture, otherwise individuals could not be born again (John 3:5). Further all that is accomplished for God in the testimony of the 144,000 sealed servants (Revelation 7:4) must be through the energy of the Spirit. The two slain witnesses (Revelation 11:11) must be resurrected by the Spirit of God (see also Romans 8:11).
How will believers during “the tribulation” differ from believers in this age?
Believers during Daniel’s 70th week will receive eternal life (John 3:5, with Ezekiel 36:25) and will enjoy spiritual “New Covenant blessings” (Jeremiah 31:33-34; Ezekiel 36:25-27). They will joyously anticipate the complete fulfillment of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 32:37-41; Ezekiel 36:28). “My Spirit within you” (Ezekiel 36:27) is distinct from the promise to us, “We (Father and Son by the Spirit) will come unto him, and make Our abode with him” (John 14:23). In this age the believer’s body is the temple of the Spirit Who is “in you” (I Corinthians 6:19).
The Bride will have been raptured, therefore tribulation believers are not “in Christ” or “one with Christ” (Ephesians 2:13-18; 5:30-32).
“My belief is that the believer enters that kingdom when they accept His free gift. “
That is very true. However, one must die daily and let go of the old before we can truly accept the new. If we are full of ourselves, we have no room to accept God.
The shift when true communion is accpted and we are in Him and He is in us is the real “Born Again” experience. At that moment we begin to perceive directly from our consciousness in our soul rather than being limited to the 5 senses of the physical body.
At that time we perceive a whole new reality, while still being in our physical bodies. It is very difficult to straddle the fence between two realities.
I believe the 'rapture" is the resurrection of the believers, which I see as coming at the end of the tribulation. However, denying the tribulation is also unscriptural, and making such texts as 1 Co. 3 to refer to Purgatory and that doctrine is worse than the misleading error of the rapture.
3 Distinct Days:
The Day of Christ
Read the three references to the Day of Christ in Philippians 1:6, 1:10, and 2:16. When Paul mentions the Day of Christ, he is referring to the Lord’s coming to the air to catch away His people, the Church, and to subsequent events in heaven. This coming is the event that the Lord referred to in John 14:1-6. “And if I go … I will come again and receive you unto Myself.” There are three references to the Lord’s coming in John’s gospel and they all refer to the rapture of the Church! (11:25, 14:1-6, 21:22). We get a more complete picture of the rapture of the Church in Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians. “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words” (4:13-18 ESV).
Notice first the reason: “Jesus died and rose again.” This is the great foundation of the teaching that follows. Notice the return: “The Lord Himself will descend from heaven.” Then consider the resurrection of those who have died in Christ and the rapture of the living saints: “The dead in Christ shall rise first; then we who are alive.” See then the reunion: “Caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Other passages teach us that this will be followed by review and reward. So the Day of Christ refers to the Church, to heaven, and to reward.
We want to show now that the Day of the Lord refers to Israel, the nations, the earth, and retribution.
The Day of the Lord
The Day of the Lord is frequently referred to in the Old Testament. While Paul had written about the Day of Christ in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, he changed his focus in 5:1-3 and wrote, “Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, ‘There is peace and security,’ then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape” (1Thes 5:1-3 ESV). In the Day of Christ Paul dealt with delight and in the Day of the Lord with destruction.
Listen also to Jude’s words about the Day of the Lord: “It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, ‘Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against Him’” (Jude 1:14-15 ESV). There has been some confusion over the reading of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. We believe it should read as in the NASB, ESV, and JND: “Now we beg you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, nor troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as [if it were] by us, as that the day of the Lord is present. Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because [it will not be] unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition (2Thes 2:1-3 Darby). Notice first Paul’s teaching about the events in the Day of Christ, “The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, even our gathering together unto Him.” That is clearly what will happen when He comes for His Church; we will be gathered together unto Him. But these believers in Thessalonica had been told by false teachers that the Day of the Lord was present, and that this accounted for the intense persecution they were suffering. Paul tells them of the necessary precursors of the Day of the Lord. They were clearly not living in the Day of the Lord. That day will be marked by events far more calamitous than the Thessalonians were experiencing. The Day of the Lord includes much more than His appearing when He comes to the earth for it will encompass subsequent events on earth.
It is helpful to note that all the references to the coming of the Lord in the synoptic gospels are references to the Lord’s coming in judgment. The rapture of the Church is not mentioned in these first three gospels.
The Day of God
There is another prophetic day. Peter writes, “Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to His promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells” (2Peter 3:11-13 ESV).
The Day of God takes us further ahead and into the eternal state. In the millennium, righteousness will reign. In the eternal Day of God, righteousness will dwell. How should we then behave as these truths hold us? “Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by Him without spot or blemish, and at peace” (2Peter 3:14; ESV).
bookmark
The English word “rapture” may not be in the Bible just like “Trinity” is not, but the original Greek texts use the word “Harpozo.” The meaning of Harpozo in Greek is to take, snatch by force or catch up. The Latin word is “Raptura”. That’s most likely why we hear people use the English word “rapture” nowadays. Even though we know the basics as described in the Bible, some of the details of the way things play out may be left to speculation. No matter how this goes down,, whether it be Pre-trib, Mid-Trib, Post-trib or someway else, it is a day I hope that followers of Jesus pray that comes quickly.
Not at all ... go read some scholarship and find any dispensational premillennialist who teaches date setting.
I can suggest pre-trib.org for a large array of papers/authors of the above persuasion covering a huge array of topics ... including the failings of the "it all happened in 70 AD" view.
At least understand what we believe for your own edification.
I believe he chooses us, rather than we choose him. I also believe that, once His, our “experience” with Him grows and we increase in knowledge as well as the blessings being His brings.
But salvation, itself, is, for us, the simplest part. Afterward we do the work, not to be saved, but because we want to please him. And some days we do well, and others not so well. It’s a growth process, and separate from salvation itself.
FWIW, I see the unsaved as “NPC’s” - Non Player Characters in a video game. They are the “Natural man” and basically animals. And all of the saved were once NPC’s. We still live in that natural man, with all of it’s necessary desires (e.g. the need for food) that can be exploited and bring sin, but the “spiritual man” that occupies that meat is born of God and has acquired “life everlasting.
I think you are right on there, but I believe Jesus was also eluding to
the future age when he said the gospel of the kingdom would be preached
to all of the world and then the end would come.
The gospel has only been preached to all of the world in our day, today
also if you read rev 17 you can see that it is speaking of another age.
There are seven kings, five are fallen, one is and one is yet to come,
I believe it is talking about empures which are Egypt, Assyria,Babalon,
Media Persia, Greece, and Rome.
Rome was in power in John’s day but all of these powers controlled Isreal
John then tells us of the seventh king or beast that would be wounded by
the sword but did live, history plainly tells us that the seventh empire
is none othan the holy Roman empire which in the mid sixteen hundreds was
wounded by the be sword but did live.
The pope was taken captive but later realeased to become the head of the
Woman who sat on many waters, a Catholic church on every nation on Earth
and she has committed fornication with the kings of the earth.
John also said there were ten kings who had received no kingdom as yet so
we know he was talking about a later time who will help the beast destroy
the whore and her daughters, the religious institutions.
We can see this happening before our very eyes, they are going against the
word of God with a lot of help from one government or another.
In rev 18:4 God tells his people to come out of her and be not partakers of
her sins.
A proper understanding of Old Testament scripture is necessary if one wishes to understanding NT scripture and he Book of Revelation. There are over 600 references in Revelation to the OT. Jesus wiping away every tear doesn’t occur until eternity. If the author doesn’t have those basic facts correct, he certainly can’t understand deeper eschatological doctrine.
But most here believe Jesus is going to beat His bride.
Its good to have company here ...
Then why does He say that those who are "alive and remain" shall be "caught up together with them"?
This essentially illustrates the who problem with this post - it ignores obvious flaws in its own doctrine, while focusing on a word study that doesn't even really say what it purports to say.
Dead works are based on the fact that for EVERY.OTHER.RELIGION. you need to save yourself - from Sanatana Dharma: Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism you have to escape the cycle and build your own karma. Similarly Zoroastrianism is about being good, Judaism / Islam is about following the rules.
Christianity is a revolution in that case --
.
yet we have Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation which means to me that we can't save ourselves in line with For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will. -- so the "being good" is in itself God working in us
Versus "THIS generation" as referring to the generation that sees these signs. I do not get into prophecy debate much (and am suffering from a gall bladder attack), but it seems like if Revelation was fulfilled in 70A.D, then you must believe that:
The Lord has come and gathered together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:31)
The great river Euphrates was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. (Revelation 16:12)
The great city Babylon has been thrown down, so that it has been "found no more at all". - Revelation 18:21
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, has been heard no more at all in it; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, , has been found any more in it ; and the sound of a millstone has been heard no more at all in it ; (Revelation 18:22)
The devil has been "cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." (Revelation 20:3)
Or that all these prophecies are somehow allegorical, as with the extensive description of the future temple in Ezekiel.
Sorry: I do not buy it.
Exactly. Why would HE allow his Bride to suffer in the Tribulation?
So it ain't in the Bible in the sense of the "left behind" rapture
Yes, I noticed this too. It's hard to say you're accurately addressing a doctrine you disagree with when you don't even accurately define that doctrine to begin with. This article isn't really a sound exegesis of Scripture that addresses rapture eschatology, it's more of a Catholic attempt to do so, using information largely derived from popular culture and "folk belief."
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