Posted on 08/18/2018 10:09:46 AM PDT by Salvation
The Bible and the Church never praise lying, even when there are good intentions behind the act Msgr. Charles Pope
Is lying always wrong?
Question: We are told not to lie, but the Bible says Rahab the prostitute lied to protect the Jewish spies. The Bible later praises her as being justified for doing this. Does Scripture praise lying, which is a sin? — Tamarah E. Jones, La Plata, Maryland
Answer: No. We should be careful to recall that the Bible records many things that are not praiseworthy. There are murders, rapes, theft, polygamy, adultery and the like. The mere reporting of these behaviors is not approval of them. In many cases, such behavior becomes an object lesson to illustrate what happens when such bad behavior ensues. In other cases, the sinful behavior simply goes unremarked. But silence is not the same as approval.
It is true that Rahab lied. Here is the account of it: “So the king of Jericho sent Rahab the order, ‘Bring out the men who have come to you and entered your house, for they have come to spy out the entire land.’ The woman had taken the two men and hidden them, so she said, ‘True, the men you speak of came to me, but I did not know where they came from. At dark, when it was time to close the gate, they left, and I do not know where they went’” (Jos 2:3-5).
The incident is simply recorded. And while the two Hebrew spies benefit from her lie and even promise her reward for her protection, there is no explicit praise in the text for the lie itself.
Later in the Scriptures there is praise of Rahab, but there is no mention of her lie, only her act of receiving the spies and sending them out by a protected way. Here are those texts: “By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with the disobedient, for she had received the spies in peace” (Heb 11:31). “And in the same way was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?” (Jas 2:25).
Hence we should be careful not to say that the Scriptures affirm lying in this matter. There is a care in the sacred text to focus the praise on her overall benevolence, not the lie. St. Augustine affirms this stance: “That therefore which was rewarded in them was, not [her] deceit, but [her] benevolence; benignity of mind, not iniquity of lying” (“To Consentius, Against Lying,” 32).
I have a theory about lying. I think that when someone lies a lot that it makes them crazy because the brain witnessed reality/truth and then finds itself telling a different story contradicting that. The brain is designed to reconcile conflicts which is one reason we sometimes see optical illusions or engage in cognitive dissonance. This tension between the two realities eventually possibly causes the mind to do strange things. Thus, too much lying will make you crazy!
What lie can I tell YOU?
You look wonderful.
No that doesnt make you look fat
I love the way you look.
Of course I love your mother dear
Your mother gave me you. How could I not love her.
My mom taught me that you do not lie but there is no reason to go around babbling all the truth either.
So did mine. Also, I learned that there's a difference between "what I think" and "the truth."
People on the internet often say, when challenged, "It's the truth!" about situations that are questions of opinion, values, or even metaphor, rather than truth or falsehood.
"It was imprudent of Donald Trump to refer to Omarosa Manigault as 'a dog'."
"But it's the truth!"
One of the okay times is for strategic reasons in battle, to save yourself or others (the Jew in the Attic).
God told Moses to lie to pharaoh about the “Exodus”. He said to tell pharaoh it was for a three day worship festival.
And the pastor thought that while there is contention about the verse, he didn't think it was that outrageous that Jesus would lie for a strategic reason.:
John 7:8-10: [Jesus said:] You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.
And all sorts of deceit in the OT military battles.
John 7:8-10: [Jesus said:] You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.
If, and it's a huge if....Jesus lied....then He's not able to be our sacrifice as the lie would make Him a sinner. Your pastor is in error on his understanding of the passage.
The clintooons are good examples of your theory!
I guess that’s the whole point of this thread. Is lying always wrong? If it isn’t wrong sometimes, then it is not a sin.
Many people think they are being truthful when they are giving their opinion and are framing it in the most hurtful way possible.
Kindness, the most under rated of virtues (IMHO) demands that we attempt to be gentle with other people.
Of course sometimes that is either not possible or will not get the job done.
If I tell the repair person that the washing machine is ok when it is leaking like a sieve then I am not going to get the machine fixed.
To get the job done I have to tell him that it is leaking. However adding that he is the most incompetent repair person I have ever met is not necessary and might not even be true.
It’s always wrong....I’ve not seen any Scriptural exceptions for when it’s ok to lie.
“If you get hit in the face with a bucket of schnitt, be sure to close your eyes!”
I got this right here: It’s not wrong to lie to inquisitors.
That’s right. Many years ago.
Well, I like big butts and I cannot lie. When my wife asks me that question, I give her a salacious leer and say, “Yes, yes it does.” De gustibus non est disputandum.
“That dress makes you look fat,” is an opinion statement, not a fact statement. “Fat” as an appearance quality, rather than as a type of flesh, is a matter of opinion. Then there’s the issue of “the dress makes you ...”. If the viewer already considers the questioner “fat,” the dress isn’t doing anything. As the Irish joke says, “Do these jeans make my butt look big?” “No, chocolate cake makes your butt look big.”
Therefore, this situation is not one in which “lie” is a useful verb. It’s a question of determining the subtext of the question. Some options:
“Will you reassure me that I look okay for the planned event?”
“Is this dress the most flattering to me of my available options?”
“Do you think I’m fat?”
The answers depend on one’s character. A decent husband would reassure his wife. If the dress has a rip, has a stain, looks awful with those shoes, etc., he would tell her. A perceptive husband might say, “That one’s okay, but you look really slinky in the blue one.” An unutterable cretin would say, “Yes, I think you’re fat,” and flatter himself that he never lies.
Thank you for the education that I would never have gotten. May Yahweh or Jesus bless you. From the bottom of my heart.
One really notices these nuances when one is coaching an autism-spectrum son regarding his relations with people who probably aren’t like him. (The kid who sang, “God Save Emperor Franz” in German at karaoke night IS like him. Zot, that was surreal. And then Pat “sang” a My Chemical Romance instrumental number.) Where was I ...
Oh, even when the conversation is about video games or sports or movies, there are ways to share your opinion that don’t cause everyone to avoid you for the next four years.
“I like Bastille a lot!” says some kid at the church youth group. If you don’t like Bastille, you can say, “They suck!” but now the other kid thinks you’re a jerk. Or you can say, “My sisters listened to them for a couple of years. I thought that one song, “Pompeii,” was interesting, because yadda yadda volcano excavation Pliny the Younger my grandma,” and then you can mention a band you like.
No questions = no answers.
No answers = no lies,
But I don’t like beer. I’ll take a glass of red wine.
I don’t like beer, either.
And were willing to accept the consequences of lying. thats also key.
LOL! I can’t stand the smell of it or the taste of it. Ugh!
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