At the name of Jesus

OSV.com ^ | 06-10-18 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[ealgeone]

Hey, ealgeone, do you use graven images? I don’t.

If there is an appeal to Scott Hahn's failed argument on pictures of mom and dad as graven images we know they've lost the argument for sure. It's one of the easiest refuted Roman Catholic arguments I've ever encountered.

[Al Hitan]

Sure you do. Do you use coins?

[Al Hitan]

And please don't use Hahn's failed apologetical argument

Who’s Scott Hahn?

[Elsie]

 Our souls will also with our spirits to the Paradise of Heaven, to remain there until each one of us is rejoined to a newly formed and risen body like His, of flesh and bones (1 Jn. 3:2)

 

Then just WHY would the OLD bodies need to leave the grave?

 

The flesh counts for nothing.  John 6:63

 

 

 

 

 

1 John 3:2 King James Version (KJV)

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Elsie]

There's no Scripture that I see that will tell straight out.

Bingo

[Elsie]

That or the sacrifice of Jesus transcends our concept of time.

Huh?

What does this even imply?

[Elsie]

It is what is commonly accepted that the Scripture says in that passage:

Oh; I see...

[metmom]

They use the same failed “logic” to justify calling their priests “father.”

IT’s astounding to watch people justify sin.

[Elsie]

>> One who possesses eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ and His Shed Blood never does dies. <<

From what I read, we ALL process 'eternal life'.

Faith in Jesus merely determines just WHERE it will be experienced.

[ealgeone]

Why does Rome combine Exodus 20:3 with Exodus 20:4-6?

The natural flow and breaks in the passage indicates how it should be understood. As noted previously...even Douay Rheims renders the breaks the same.

But then even with that aside....Rome has added to the "First Commandment".

In the CCC they've added to Exodus and Deuteronomy a passage from Matthew and call this the First Commandment.

The text in Exodus and Deuteronomy do not contain the passage from Matthew 4:10 which is a partial quote from Deuteronomy 6:13

13“You shall fear only the LORD your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name..[NASB]

********

As written in the CCC:

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.3

It is written: "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."4

[Elsie]

I do believe that we hold a great deal more and certainly more significant beliefs in common than the trivial issues that often get us arguing.

I've learned NOT to take it so personally when described by sometimes quite interesting adjectives.

There is usually a much bigger issue being fought here than the influence of my puny words.

That said; what we are disagreeing about so often is NOT trivial.

[ealgeone]

Sure you do. Do you use coins?

LOL!!!! You've got to be kidding....right?

Did you come up with this on your own???

And here I thought Hahn had some weak apologetics.

Oh, man....that's hysterical. Keep'em coming!

[Elsie]

Let me once again remind you of the full First Commandment as taught by the Church:

Matthew 28:20 KJV
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 23:9 KJV
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

[ealgeone]

Sorry....not Scott Hahn.....Tim Staples. My error. Confusing the two.

Hahn and Staples are both Roman Catholic apologists.

My references should have been to Staples' arguments.

[Elsie]

:)

[Al Hitan]

LOL!!!! You've got to be kidding....right?

So, I guess you do use graven images.

[metmom]

Irrelevant.

Jesus never said anything about an image on a coin being idolatry, so your accusation holds no water.

Luke 20:21-25 So they asked him, “Teacher, we know that you speak and teach rightly, and show no partiality, but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful for us to give tribute to Caesar, or not?”

But he perceived their craftiness, and said to them, “Show me a denarius. Whose likeness and inscription does it have?”

They said, “Caesar's.”

He said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

[Elsie]

Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

 

 HMMMmmm...

 26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp 

 

Translation:  "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."

[ealgeone]

No. Because coins are not graven images. Surely you have a better case than that.

[Elsie]

 

 

---

The 15 promises

(Given to St. Dominic and Blessed Alan de la Roche)

1	Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces.
2.	I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3.	The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies
4.	It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5.	The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
6.	Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying Himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise Him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.
7.	Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8.	Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise.
9.	I  shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
10.	The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
11.	You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.
12.	All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
13.	I  have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death
14.	All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ.
15.	Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

 

"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem,

no matter how difficult it is, wheter temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families...that cannot be solved by the Rosary.

There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary."

Sister Lucia dos Santos