Where does a pastor get his authority?

Running Away From My Church Blog ^ | 1/7/2018 | Robert Messner

[tiredofallofit]

But that chain of authority is often not so clear in the church world, especially amongst non-denominational evangelicals. If a man or woman steps up behind a pulpit and speaks to us authoritatively on matters of theology, why do we automatically accept this authority? Is it because we like what we hear? Or do we validate the authority because the pastor’s interpretation of the Bible jives with our own understanding? But who are we to even make that judgement? Why is our interpretation of the Bible any better than the person sitting next to us on the pew? And if we disagree with an aspect of the pastor’s views, do we have a right to question him? Or do we have to accept what he says because we have already consented to his authority?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Prayers up for you .45!

[ealgeone]

To: af_vet_1981; TexasFreeper2009

>>Texasfreeper2009: but the modern catholic church has exactly zero in common with the original church as described in the gospels.<, False

The NT church didn't have idols of Mary, pray to her, rely upon her for salvation, proclaim her omnipotent, etc....for starters.

It didn't conduct its business in Latin.

There was no Mass.

There was no priesthood as we see in Roman Catholicism today and none of the attire worn by the pope, bishops, etc.

69 posted on 1/7/2018, 6:22:23 PM by ealgeone [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

[infool7]

Got any Fathers, Doctors or Saints? Any Martyrs? How bout a Magisterium and Sacred Tradition that closely guarded the Deposit of Faith. Did your assembly compile and promulgate the Bible?

Without them it wouldn’t be an upgrade and it’s not my religion or my church either for that matter. It is His, One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus where I can receive Him at Mass (at the foot of the cross, which is timeless) in the Eucharist in Holy Communion.

Eternity: past, present and future, does that pass your “old” test?

[xone]

ph

[ealgeone]

LOL! You left out what Peter said. Is this the reason your thoughts about the Council of Jerusalem are in error?

LOL...it won't matter.

James concluded the meeting and drafted the response of the Council.

[infool7]

because I’m in the hospital

Egads so sorry. May the Divine Physician assist you in your rapid healing and recovery. Get some rest and we can carry on our debate when you are feeling better.

[af_vet_1981]

I hope your hospital stay is brief, you have visitors, and you have a full recovery.

As to Bereans, ("It has nothing, zero, to do with whether or not you are a Berean"), the name is from the city/town Berea:

History[edit]

Onesimus, formerly Philemon's slave, was its first bishop according to the Apostolic Constitutions (VII, 46). Gerontius took part in the Council of Sardica (c. 344), Lucas in the Robber Council of Ephesus (449), Sebastian in the Council of Chalcedon (451), Timothy in the synod convoked by Patriarch Menas of Constantinople in 536, and Joseph in the Council of Constantinople (869) that condemned Photius.[5][6] The Byzantine emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos promoted the local see to an archbishopric after 1261, and it advanced further to the rank of a metropolitan see by 1300.[7] Berrhoea is today listed by the Catholic Church as a titular see.[8][9] At the time of the last partition of the empire, it was allotted to Macedonia Prima[10] and its see made suffragan to Thessalonica.

Under Andronicus II (1283-1328) Beroea was made a metropolis.

The Greek metropolitans added the title of Naoussa, a neighbouring city. It has now about 10,000 inhabitants.[11]

Known bishops[edit] Amongst its bishops were,

The Biblical Onesimus,
Gerontius was present at Sardica in 344,
Luke at the Latrocinium of Ephesus in 449,
Timothy at the Council of Constantinople under the Patriarch Menas in 536,
Joseph at the Eighth Oecumenical Council in 869.
un-named Catholic bishop in 1235[12]
Catholic Titular bishops of Berrhoea[edit]
Alfredo Ottaviani ( April 5, 1962 April 19, 1962 ) Pierre-Auguste-Marie-Joseph Douillard May 22, 1963 August 20, 1963
Friedrich Kaiser Depel (October 29, 1963 September 26, 1993)[13]


The modern use of the term Bereans has an unfortunate twist: Modern use[edit]

Historically, the Bereans (also called Beroeans, Barclayans or Barclayites) were a Protestant sect following former Scottish Presbyterian minister John Barclay (1734-1798). Founded in Edinburgh in 1773, the Berean Church followed a modified form of Calvinism. It had congregations in Scotland, London and Bristol, but mainly merged with the Congregationalists after Barclay's death in 1798.

A new Protestant Christian group began in the 1850s in the United States under the tutelage of Dr. John Thomas. The name "Christadelphian" was chosen as it is believed that those who believe and obey the Commandments of Christ and the Bible as the inspired word of God, are "Brethren in Christ". The original group split, with one group continuing with the name "The Christadelphians" and the second group adding the word "Berean" to become the "Berean Christadelphians". The word "Berean" was chosen to reflect the words in Acts 17, "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so." Christadelphians, and Berean Christadelphians believe in the promises given to Abraham, Isaac, and David concerning the Kingdom of God. They deny the Doctrine of the Trinity, a central tenet of orthodox Christianity, and this refusal to recognize the triune nature of God has resulted in a major impasse between the Christadelphians/Berean Christadelphians and the Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Some groups among the Bible Student movement also adopted the name, such as the Berean Bible Students and the Berean Bible Institute. Churches and institutions who adopt the Berean name, usually do so in order to express their desire to reflect the attitude of the Bereans in Acts 17, committing themselves to "searching the scriptures daily."

[Iscool]

You can find the clear chain of proper authority in the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church

Yes you can...Based upon the customs of the Catholic institution...But it's not biblical...

You don't have pastors in the Catholic religion, you have priests...

To my understanding this thread pertains to those churches which have pastors who are married with families, and none are acceptably homosexual...

Your religion has a different authority for its religion than we bible believers do...

[ealgeone]

Got any Fathers, Doctors or Saints?

You mean like guys who wrote this?

Saint Anselm says, ‘that as it is impossible for one who is not devout to Mary, and consequently not by her, to be saved, so is it impossible for one who recommends himself to her, and consequently is beloved by her, to be lost.’ Saint Antoninus repeats the same thing, and almost in the same words: ‘As it is impossible for those from whom Mary turns her eyes of mercy, to be saved, so also are those towards whom she turns these eyes, and for whom she prays, necessarily saved and glorified.’ Consequently the clients of Mary will necessarily be saved. (The Glories of Mary, p184)

The Glories of Mary, translated from the Italian of St Alphonsus De; Liguori, Founder of the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer, by A Father of the Same Congregation LONDON: Printed for the Redemptorist Fathers, St Mary’s, Clapham, Surrey; to be had of J.J. Wallwork, 42, Great Marlborough Street, Regent Street, and of all Booksellers. MDCCCLII p184-185.

Anselm was proclaimed a Doctor of the Church by a bull of Pope Clement XI in 1720.

You mean like the ECFS who are in disagreement on what Rome holds to be truth? Their only consistency seems to be....inconsistency.

Every believer in Christ is a saint.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Got any Fathers,”

Yes. Many taught exactly what we teach.

“Doctors”

Of course.

“or Saints?”

MILLIONS. Many with the Lord and a great many on earth now. Many on this thread.

“Any Martyrs?”

Yes, and many were martyred by Rome - it’s popes and peeps.

“How bout a Magisterium”

Not needed.

“and Sacred Tradition”

There is none that is verifiably taught or believed by Apostles before 100 ad. Much of what Rome calls sacred tradition is syncretic paganism.

“Did your assembly compile and promulgate the Bible?

My God faithfully inspired, preserved and compiled His Word for thousands of years.

[ealgeone]

What does all of that have to do with the Bereans as noted in the NT checked what they heard with Scripture?

[PeterPrinciple]

Third, Scripture tells us a little about that Church Christ established - “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 16:17-18
Now what Church had Peter as its first leader?

---

Now go back and read that in context. What was revealed and who revealed it? That is what the church is built on............

[narses]

“I disagree with you, but don’t want to debate it.”

And then you do.

Q.E.D.

[Iscool]

I know there are may opinions on authority, but please use Scripture to support your opinion

Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Now what Church had Peter as its first leader?

The Jewish church...Peter was sent into parts unknown to preach to Jews...

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Paul was the apostle to the Gentile church...

I don't know why you guys sometime try to appeal to scripture since it always comes around to bite you in the hind end...Your religion is not the church of the bible...

[narses]

“I am not anti-catholic by any means,...”

Wait for it.....

“....but the modern catholic church has exactly zero in common with the original church as described in the gospels.”

Right.

[af_vet_1981]

What does all of that have to do with the Bereans as noted in the NT checked what they heard with Scripture?

It shows synopsis of the history of Berea, the Bereans, and Protestants that appropriated the name Berean.

A few points about the Bereans mentioned in the Book of Acts
1. They were Jews who kept the Law of Moses
2. They did not accept the testimony of the Apostle Paul (and Saint Silas/Silvanus) by revelation, but rather searched the scriptures daily to see for themselves if what they said agreed with their reading. Many of them (but not all) believed.
3. Saints Paul and Silas told them the truth. It was the truth whether or not the Bereans searched the scriptures. One need not search the scriptures to determine whether was Saints Paul and Silas said was true.

[ealgeone]

They did not accept the testimony of the Apostle Paul (and Saint Silas/Silvanus) by revelation, but rather searched the scriptures daily to see for themselves if what they said agreed with their reading.

Their example is a good one for all to follow.

If applied today, much of Roman Catholicism fails the test.

10The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. Acts 17:10-11 NASB

[XEHRpa]

the Order of Melchizedek. See, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_of_Melchizedek

[PeterPrinciple]

They did not accept the testimony of the Apostle Paul (and Saint Silas/Silvanus) by revelation, but rather searched the scriptures daily to see for themselves if what they said agreed with their reading.

---

Another point to consider is that their scriptures were the Old Testament...........................

[infool7]

Well four out of five ain’t bad but it’s no cigar.