Posted on 11/28/2017 12:09:34 PM PST by ebb tide
"Less Filling!" "Leggo My Eggo!"
Do you mean like the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law?
The Grace comes from God ("God's unmerited favor").
Our forgiveness of sins, and our justification, is solely through the Cross and the Resurrection.
But I think God can and does use all kinds of instruments / methods / tools (and yes, sometimes, gasp, even people, and even Saints...and sometimes even Miracles and Signs and inanimate objects) to attract our attention or soften our hearts or call us. Or even just because He's generous.
(See the story of people being healed when Peter's *shadow* passed over them. See the story of the man whose body was thrown into a tomb and touched the body of Elisha in 2 Kings 13, and the guy got up and ran away. Speaking of Elisha, look at the story of the man whose borrowed iron axe-head fell into the river in 2 Kings 6. There was no essential doctrinal significance to that story at the time.)
Before I reply, I couldn't figure out specifically what that acronym PTCBIH means. Can you write out out explicitly?
“Huh. Hebrews 12 kinda implies that they’re at least watching (and presumably, rooting for us).”
Commonly believed but not true. Chapter 11, the hall of faith, details amazing stories of people who trusted God, despite circumstances.
Chapter 12 starts with the connector word, “Therefore.” It links chapter 11 and chapter 12.
The cloud of witnesses are those who witness to faith through their lives in chapter 11.
There is no cheering, watching or awareness of us in the text.
The “great cloud of witnesses are those the author just detailed.
Verses 22-24 say
22Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the judge of all men, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Note, the *heavenly* Jerusalem....and angels, ...the firstborn, enrolled in heaven, ...the spirits of righteous made perfect.
It doesn't say "when you die you are going to come to" but it says "you *have* come to".
But you took the time to do the search. It's neurotic no matter how you slice it.
Gw ,
12:14–29 Is a new section contains the 5th warning in Hebrews: The Danger of Unresponsiveness
It is not about saints or angels watching and cheering.
I'd bet yer sweetie can!
I find ‘em...
I post ‘em...
Hey Vlad!
When wanting a picture of dwarf,
Don’t settle for one of ol’ Worf.
That grumpy old Klingon,
No hymns be he singin’.
And his food? It’ll make y’all barf!
No.
1 Samuel 28:3-25 English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had put the mediums and the necromancers out of the land. 4 The Philistines assembled and came and encamped at Shunem. And Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. 6 And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets. 7 Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.”
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” 9 The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?” 10 But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” 11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” 13 The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” 14 He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.” 16 And Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done to you as he spoke by me, for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover, the Lord will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The Lord will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.”
20 Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night. 21 And the woman came to Saul, and when she saw that he was terrified, she said to him, “Behold, your servant has obeyed you. I have taken my life in my hand and have listened to what you have said to me. 22 Now therefore, you also obey your servant. Let me set a morsel of bread before you; and eat, that you may have strength when you go on your way.” 23 He refused and said, “I will not eat.” But his servants, together with the woman, urged him, and he listened to their words. So he arose from the earth and sat on the bed. 24 Now the woman had a fattened calf in the house, and she quickly killed it, and she took flour and kneaded it and baked unleavened bread of it, 25 and she put it before Saul and his servants, and they ate. Then they rose and went away that night.
Hold up justa goldarned minute there, Partner...
Not quite.
1. They are superfluous
2. The folks who claim extra-biblical stuff INSIST that much of it is NEEDED and VITAL to salvation and pleasing GOD.
> Do you mean like the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law?
There are actions for which the individual or the society is liable to be punished, since such behavior is not appropriate for the human race, even though it is beyond the scope of the Seven Commandments. But Gentiles are obligated to fulfill the Seven Noahide Commandments because they are the eternal command of G-d.
Though 1 in 5 lack any humor,
Has a test confirmed this sad rumor?
With somber sad tones,
a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
May as well be Chuck Schumer.
Oh?
Matthew 17:1-8 1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. 4Peter said to Jesus, "LORD, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters-one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." 5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" 6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7But Jesus came and touched them. "Get up," he said. "Don't be afraid." 8When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
Mark 9:2-8 2After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus. 5Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters-one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." 6(He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.) 7Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!" 8Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Jesus.
Luke 9:28-36 28About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. 31They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. 32Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. 33As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters-one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." (He did not know what he was saying.) 34While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35A voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him." 36When the voice had spoken, they found that Jesus was alone. The disciples kept this to themselves and did not tell anyone at that time what they had seen.
2 Peter 1:16-18 16For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." 18We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
HMMMmmm...
...it seems that your topic of discussion is not found in the Scriptures.
Or someone’s homepage...
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