Posted on 10/24/2017 6:22:28 PM PDT by marshmallow
MADISON, Wis. (ChurchMilitant.com) - A Wisconsin diocese is advising priests to be careful with funerals for people who lived a homosexual lifestyle to avoid scandalizing the faithful.
In a memo issued on October 21 by James Bartylla, vicar general of the diocese of Madison, headed by Bp. Robert Morlino, Bartylla addressed funerals in Catholic parishes for people who were in "a public union gravely contrary to the natural law," specifically referring to homosexual civil unions.
Although not authored by Bp. Morlino, a Madison diocese statement clarified that the directives "conform with the mind of the bishop and meet his approval."
The directives encourage priests to "think through the issue thoroughly and prudently," adding that if a priest is not sure how to deal with a particular situation, "the local ordinary is to be consulted, and his judgment is to be followed."
Referring to Church law, the directives note that "funeral rites may be denied for manifest sinners in which public scandal of the faithful can't be avoided."
The main reason for treating the funerals of deceased homosexuals carefully is the potential for "scandal and confusion" and the possibility of "leading others into the occasion of sin or confusing or weakening people, regarding the teachings of the Catholic Church in regards to sacred doctrine and the natural law."
The guidelines ask, however, that all be done "amidst the solicitude for the deceased and family."
They offer the following thoughts to help guide his priests to make the right decision in a situation:
* Was the deceased or the "partner" a promoter of the "gay" lifestyle? What is the attitude of the deceased's family members, especially towards the Church?
* Did the deceased give some signs of repentance before death?
* If ecclesiastical funeral rites are allowed, should.....
(Excerpt) Read more at churchmilitant.com ...
‘Course. Ya can’t bury ‘em if they’re active. They’ll just dig their way out. Believe me — I’ve tried.
And the liberals are outraged. The liberals who would never ever set foot inside a church, will he enraged that a church would set any standards.
It may, however, involve a decision to forego funerary honors: that is, a public Catholic liturgical celebration which is predicated on the assumption that the deceased was a Catholic in good standing.
By active do they mean public, out of the closet practicing?
What they really mean are those gays who have done things like “marry,” or who are active in gay political organizations advocating homosexuality, etc. These people are “notorious public sinners,” and must be visibly repentant if they wish to receive the sacraments.
In other words, this isn’t a witch-hunt for, say, effeminate men who might be gay, or pairs of same sex friends that somebody inthe parish thinks look too close, etc.
This same thing can be said of other public sinners, such as Nancy Pelosi advocating for abortion - they are a scandal and they should not receive the sacraments. But of course those things are completely ignored in today’s Church, and that’s why people are so shocked by Morlino’s very appropriate and normal approach to this issue.
“We should pray for all the dead, even manifest, proud, unrepentant sinners.”
Christians read the Scriptures and know that once a person dies, then comes judgement. At that point, they are either saved from hell or they are not.
(1) We ourselves (without some kind of revelation) can't know who is saved and who is damned. We can't read hearts and see souls. Only God can.
(2) Some people are "saved, but so as through fire." (Berean Literal Bible, 1 Cor. 2:15) Some are in a sort of prison ---says Christ --- from which they will not come out "until they have paid the last penny" (Berean, Matthew 5:26). These are not descriptions of heaven. Neither are they descriptions of hell. They ARE descriptions of a temporary stage of purification before heaven.
These souls are saved.
We pray that their purification may be merciful, and their waiting period short.
1. And yet God knows His. At death they have eternal life or not. This cannot change. Prayer will not change their destiny.
2. The passage is about the judgement of a saved believer’s works on earth - not his soul. Works done in the flesh are described as wood, hay or stubble. The fire tests the quality of the works. Works from the flesh burn, but the person themself is still saved. Again, the fire does not change salvation, nor purify the believer, since the believer has the righteousness of Christ. Prayer will not change their destiny, nor the speed of judgement of their works.
True. On this point you and the Catholic Church are in agreement.
As to your interpretation of 1 Cor. 2:15 (they are in prison, from which they will come out when they have paid the last penny) and Matthew 5:26 (they are saved, though as through fire) --- it is true that this does not impinge on salvation or damnation. All these souls are saved and heaven-bound. Their destiny was fixed at their particular judgment, which happened immediately after death.
But we certainly can help them with our prayers, just as we can help any fellow member of the Body of Christ.
It is ONLY because of our spiritual unity in the Body of Christ that we can engage in efficacious prayer for anybody.
They are not cut off from the Body of Christ, are they?
The judgement in Corinthians has no prison in the passage.
No you cannot help them by your prayers. This Bema Seat judgement is in the future. All believers will appear at that time. None will be on earth to pray.
Nor could you help them even if it were at this moment. It is complete - their lives, works, destiny, etc. Nor is the judgement presented in Scripture as taking more than a moment.
The believers destiny is fixed from the moment she or he entrusts them self to Christ alone. They are alive at this moment.
Pray for the living to come to saving faith in Him now? Absolutely.
I think a deeper consideration of the Communion of Saints is key to understanding how *everybody* (everybody who is not damned and therefore perpetually refusing all mercy!!) benefits from our prayers.
And here’s why: because we are in Christ, and this same live -— Christ’s love-— circulates to us all, and through us all.
This is what it is to be in Christ.
It’s true the judgment in Corinthians mentions no prison in the passage. Just Matthew and Luke.
The passage says nothing like that. That's your own eisegesis talking.
At death they have eternal life or not. This cannot change.
Yes, that's correct. Thank you for agreeing with Catholic dogma.
Parables. Nor any instruction nor command to pray - nor any idea that you can send money ahead so they can pay everything back.
Of course they’re parables. But parables of what? What are they saying? What does the “prison” represent?
Campion, thank you for the opportunity to post more about this passage for those who may read and want to know the truth of what God says.
In fact, an examination of this passage reveals its clear teaching about rewards of a believer in Christ. It has nothing to do with "purifying" a believer.
(My brief comments are in italics.)
1 Corinthians 3
3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?
• Paul is addressing believers in Christ. He uses the vocative (“brothers [and sisters]”) and second person plural pronouns in verses 1 and 2 indicating that he was addressing the whole church - people who have already trusted Christ.5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
• Paul addresses the divisions and the carnal result in their lives.9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
• Paul teaches that every believer will be rewarded based on their own work, but it is God who causes the results from our fruitful labor, which contributes to God's kingdom.10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
• Paul is not writing about salvation, but about what a believer does after salvation, while on earth. Those works will form the basis of reward or loss, as the passage goes on to teach:
• Paul specifies that he is teaching that "each man" will build on the existing foundation of the Apostle Paul - the truth of the saving Gospel of Christ. Each man must be careful in how he builds. There are eternal consequences.11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
• Paul notes that the quality of every man's life/work will be revealed and tested.
• Paul states that a man will build with the quality of materials that will not withstand the testing fire or the quality of materials that will withstand the test. The fire will test the quality of each man's work.14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
• Paul teaches by the Spirit that if a man's work remains after being tested, this man will receive a reward.15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
• Paul teaches by the Spirit that if a man's work burned up upon tested, this man will receive suffer a loss, but he himself will be saved.
• The testing shown here lends no support for the unbiblical doctrine of purgatory.
• It is the believer’s works that God subjects to the fires of testing, not the believer personally.
• In no word, nor sentence, nor greater unit of thought, is prayer for believers undergoing this final test encouraged, commanded, or taught. It is too late. The work is complete at that time.God applies the fire to determine the quality of the works, not to purify the believer.
It is a passage that lets the believer in Christ know that he is accountable for his actions after he entrusts himself to Christ for salvation. May God give us the grace to run the race in a way that glorifies Him.
Thank you. We agree on that.
But parables of what? What are they saying? What does the “prison” represent?
And how will you prove, based on what is written, what it means?
ASKED YOU FIRST :O)
But you already assigned meaning to the parable... pray tell how You Know?
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