Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: ealgeone
Not all.

I've read the other accounts of apparitions claiming to be Mary. They follow a similar pattern. Their message when examined fully is counter to what is revealed in Scripture.

Our Lady of Guadeloupe being one notable exception.

I do note that both Sola Scriptura and controversy about Mary seem to be the biggies as far as sticking points between Catholics and dratted Protties. ;-D

That being said, Jesus *did* say that when the Holy Spirit comes, He would guide {believers] into all truth; I also note that Paul writes to TImothy to pay attention to (TImothy's) doctrine and teaching, for by so doing he will save both himself and his hearers; indicating that doctrine and teaching are important.

As a believer in Christ I recognize Mary as the mother of Christ. We count her blessed. She was in need of a Savior as the rest of us for all have sinned.

That's a sticky theological point, and probably over my head. She was not "innately sinless" by any intrinsic merit or worth of her own; she did not "slip through the cracks" as far as sin; but the Catholic holding is that she was retroactively imbued with Divine Grace so as to be preserved from Original Sin. This points to Christ and not to her: her Immaculate Conception was His doing -- but I might suggest that inquiring are debating about the mechanism might quite literally be none of our business, as though we'd presumed to ask President Trump's plan for defeating North Korea's nukes: we have no right to know, and it is presumptively arrogant to ask.

We do not bow down before her or pray to her though. We are not to have idols of her. That would be in contradiction of the Scriptures.

We don't pray to her, but we ask for her help and intercession: much as one would ask someone after the 11:00 AM church service to pray for you. Even death cannot quench the fellowship of believers. (And besides, they're already *up* in heaven: at least, for most of them, we *hope* so.)

For Mary, though, there might be two factors: the Catholics believe because of her being chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus, she has more than the ordinary amount of God's favor ("Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!") and so God might give more consideration to her prayers. Also, Mary's suffering ("and thy own soul a sword shall pierce") gives her additional compassion towards others, and perhaps a role as a channel, a vessel, to deliver God's Grace and Mercy to a fallen world. ("Jesus learned obedience through the things that He suffered") as well as having redemptive power on their own: cf. St. Paul's statement in Colossians "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church." Think of it as "God wants to toss us as many lifelines as possible; for those who can't start by trusting in Jesus, talking to his Mom is like Grace with training wheels.

She is Jesus's mother as well: look at the old Testament, when one of Solomon's brothers prompts Bathsheba to ask King Solomon, to give him Abishag as his wife (she was the virgin who helped keep King David warm in his old age). Solomon sees his Mother and says, "What is it you have come to ask of me mother? You know I will not refuse you." So Jewish mothers tend to have influence over their son, right? Going all the way back to the wedding at Cana "What do I have to do with you, woman, my time is not yet come." And her response to the waiters, which is echoed in many Catholic teachings: "Do whatever He tells you." Hardly seeking her own glory, nor an idol.

200 posted on 08/01/2017 8:46:16 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies ]


To: grey_whiskers
Solomon sees his Mother and says, "What is it you have come to ask of me mother? You know I will not refuse you."

So Jewish mothers tend to have influence over their son, right?

That worked out well!


1 Kings 2:22-25

22 King Solomon answered his mother, “And why do you ask Abishag the Shunammite for Adonijah? Ask for him the kingdom also, for he is my older brother, and on his side are Abiathar the priest and Joab the son of Zeruiah.” 23 Then King Solomon swore by the Lord, saying, “God do so to me and more also if this word does not cost Adonijah his life! 24 Now therefore as the Lord lives, who has established me and placed me on the throne of David my father, and who has made me a house, as he promised, Adonijah shall be put to death today.” 25 So King Solomon sent Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, and he struck him down, and he died.

226 posted on 08/02/2017 4:38:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies ]

To: grey_whiskers
>>I've read the other accounts of apparitions claiming to be Mary. They follow a similar pattern. Their message when examined fully is counter to what is revealed in Scripture.<<

Our Lady of Guadeloupe being one notable exception.

This is part of the message recorded from the first apparition claiming to be Mary at Guadalupe.

I wish that a temple be erected here quickly, so I may therein exhibit and give all my love, compassion, help, and protection

, because I am your merciful mother,

to you, and to all the inhabitants on this land and all the rest who love me, invoke and confide in me; listen there to their lamentations, and remedy all their miseries, afflictions and sorrows.

And to accomplish what my clemency pretends, go to the palace of the bishop of Mexico, and you will say to him that I manifest my great desire, that here on this plain a

temple be built to me;

you will accurately relate all you have seen and admired, and what you have heard.

http://www.sancta.org/nican.html

This is why I say the apparitions proclaim a false message.

This apparition is demanding a temple be built in her honor.

Would the Mary we see in the NT do this?? No.

We have the Scriptures given to us by God so we can compare the messages of angels, prophets, etc to see if they are legit.

The message of the apparition at Guadalupe does not pass this test.

If we keep the focus on Christ and His words we will do just fine.

231 posted on 08/02/2017 5:20:03 AM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies ]

To: grey_whiskers

When a Marian apparition instructs to ‘serve her’, you can be sure that message is not from God because of the Ten Commandments ... God is not duplicitous.


262 posted on 08/04/2017 7:58:43 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies ]

To: grey_whiskers
That's a sticky theological point, and probably over my head.
She was not "innately sinless" by any intrinsic merit or worth of her own; she did not "slip through the cracks" as far as sin;
but the Catholic holding is that she was retroactively imbued with Divine Grace so as to be preserved from Original Sin.



267 posted on 08/13/2017 7:37:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies ]

To: grey_whiskers
That's a sticky theological point, and probably over my head.

No; it's not.

268 posted on 08/13/2017 7:38:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies ]

To: grey_whiskers
We don't pray to her, but we ask for her help and intercession:


269 posted on 08/13/2017 7:43:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 200 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson