Question: "Are apparitions of Mary, such as Lady Fatima, true messages from God?"

Answer: In Catholic tradition, there are many reported occurrences of Mary, angels, and/or saints appearing and delivering a message from God. It is likely that, at least in some of these cases, the people were genuinely seeing something supernatural. While some of what is seen in various places is perhaps the work of charlatans, other apparitions were apparently authentic. However, an apparition being authentic does not mean it is a message from God or a genuine appearance of Mary, an angel, or a saint. Scripture declares that Satan and his demons masquerade as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). Satanic deception is just as possible an explanation for the apparitions.

The only way to determine whether an apparition is a "lying wonder" or a genuine message from God is to compare the message of the apparition with Scripture. If the teachings that are attached to these apparitions are contrary to the Word of God, the apparitions themselves are then satanic in nature. A study of the teachings of Our Lady Fatima with the "Miracle of the Sun" is a good example.

It would indeed seem that something spectacular happened on October 13, 1917, and that “something” did in fact appear and deliver a message. The fact that its timing coincided with what had been told to the shepherd children three months earlier would seem to tie this event with the apparitions they had been seeing over the previous months, first of the angel and later of the "Lady of Fatima."

When one compares the message of Fatima to what the Bible teaches, it is evident that the message of Fatima combines some biblical truth with several unbiblical practices and teachings. The following paragraphs are quoted directly from a website dedicated to the "Lady of Fatima," www.fatima.org. Specific words or sentences are underlined to indicate them to be unbiblical (not taught by the Bible), or anti-biblical (contradictory to the Bible). Following the lengthy quotations, more information will be given with specific reasons for classifying these apparitions as "lying wonders." Here then is a quoted summary of the overall message given by the Lady of Fatima:

"The general Message of Fatima is not complicated. Its requests are for prayer, reparation, repentance, and sacrifice, and the abandonment of sin. Before Our Lady appeared to the three shepherd children, Lucy, Francisco and Jacinta, the Angel of Peace visited them. The Angel prepared the children to receive the Blessed Virgin Mary, and his instructions are an important aspect of the Message that is often overlooked.

"The Angel demonstrated to the children the fervent, attentive, and composed manner in which we should all pray, and the reverence we should show toward God in prayer. He also explained to them the great importance of praying and making sacrifices in reparation for the offenses committed against God. He told them: 'Make of everything you can a sacrifice and offer it to God as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and in supplication, for the conversion of sinners.' In his third and final apparition to the children, the Angel gave them Holy Communion, and demonstrated the proper way to receive Our Lord in the Eucharist: all three children knelt to receive Communion; Lucy was given the Sacred Host on the tongue and the Angel shared the Blood of the Chalice between Francisco and Jacinta.

"Our Lady stressed the importance of praying the Rosary in each of Her apparitions, asking the children to pray the Rosary every day for peace. Another principal part of the Message of Fatima is devotion to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart, which is terribly outraged and offended by the sins of humanity, and we are lovingly urged to console Her by making reparation. She showed Her Heart, surrounded by piercing thorns (which represented the sins against Her Immaculate Heart), to the children, who understood that their sacrifices could help to console Her.

"The children also saw that God is terribly offended by the sins of humanity, and that He desires each of us and all mankind to abandon sin and make reparation for their crimes through prayer and sacrifice. Our Lady sadly pleaded: 'Do not offend the Lord our God any more, for He is already too much offended!'

"The children were also told to pray and sacrifice themselves for sinners, in order to save them from hell. The children were briefly shown a vision of hell, after which Our Lady told them: 'You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.'

"Our Lady indicated to us the specific root of all the troubles in the world, the one that causes world wars and such terrible suffering: sin. She then gave a solution, first to individual people, then to the Church’s leaders. God asks each one of us to stop offending Him. We must pray, especially the Rosary. By this frequent prayer of the Rosary, we will get the graces we need to overcome sin. God wants us to have devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and to work to spread this devotion throughout the world. Our Lady said, 'My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God.' If we wish to go to God, we have a sure way to Him through true devotion to the Immaculate Heart of His Mother.

"In order to move ever closer to Her, and therefore to Her Son, Our Lady stressed the importance of praying at least five decades of the Rosary daily. She asked us to wear the Brown Scapular. And we must make sacrifices, especially the sacrifice of doing our daily duty, in reparation for the sins committed against Our Lord and Our Lady. She also stressed the necessity of prayers and sacrifices to save poor sinners from hell. The Message of Fatima, to individual souls, is summarized in these things."

On the same website, there is recorded an interview between Sister Lucy (the 10-year-old shepherd girl who was among the three children who saw the apparitions in 1917) and a Father Fuentes. The interview took place in 1957. In this interview focusing on Fatima and its message, Sister Lucy says the following:

"Father, the devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle against the Blessed Virgin, and the devil knows what it is that most offends God, and which in a short space of time will gain for him the greatest number of souls. Thus the devil does everything to overcome souls consecrated to God, because in this way the devil will succeed in leaving the souls of the faithful abandoned by their leaders, thereby the more easily to seize them.

"Father, the Most Holy Virgin did not tell me that we are in the last times of the world, but She made me understand this for three reasons. The first reason is because She told me that the devil is in the mood for engaging in a decisive battle against the Virgin. And a decisive battle is the final battle where one side will be victorious and the other side will suffer defeat. Hence from now on we must choose sides. Either we are for God or we are for the devil; there is no other possibility.

"The second reason is because She said to my cousins as well as to myself, that God is giving two last remedies to the world. They are the Holy Rosary and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies which signify that there will be no others.

"The third reason is because in the plans of Divine Providence, God always, before He is about to chastise the world, exhausts all other remedies. Now, when He sees that the world pays no attention whatsoever then, as we say in our imperfect manner of speaking, He offers us with a certain trepidation the last means of salvation, His Most Holy Mother. It is with a certain trepidation because if you despise and reject this ultimate means, we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven, because we will have committed a sin which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Ghost. This sin consists of openly rejecting, with full knowledge and consent, the salvation which He offers. Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother. We have recorded through many centuries of Church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His Most Holy Mother, how Our Lord Jesus Christ has always defended the honor of His Mother.

"The two means for saving the world are prayer and sacrifice. [Regarding the Holy Rosary, Sister Lucy said:] Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin, in these last times in which we live, has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations, that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary we will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls. "Finally, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, our Most Holy Mother, consists in considering Her as the seat of mercy, of goodness and of pardon, and as the sure door of entering Heaven."

In the above paragraphs concerning the message that Sister Lucy felt that the apparition wished to communicate to the world, there are so many things that are not only not found in Scripture but are contrary to Scripture.

1) Mary is referred to as the "Most Holy Mother" and having an "Immaculate Heart." By this Catholics do not mean that she was given the righteousness and holiness given to saints through the imputed righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17-21) but that she was saved from sin in every form through having been conceived in her mother's womb without the stain of original sin. Never does the Bible refer to Mary as being sinless. Never does it refer to her having an immaculate heart. Rather, Mary refers to God as her Savior (Luke 1:47). This places her with the rest of humanity, as a sinner needing a Savior, but the Catholic Church holds that Mary was saved from sin through the merits of Christ by being conceived without sin and then living a sinless life. Again, never is this taught in Scripture. Rather, what Scripture teaches is that there is only one exception to the truth that we are all sinners (Romans 3:10, 3:23, etc.). That single exception is Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22; 1 John 3:5).

2) Sister Lucy speaks of devotion to the "Immaculate Heart" of Mary and saying the Rosary as the "last two remedies to the world." She also states that there is no problem that cannot be solved by saying the Rosary. It is the teaching of Fatima that saying the Rosary will lead to the salvation of many souls. Again, never is such a teaching found in Scripture. The Rosary's main prayer is the "Hail, Mary," which is repeated fifty times. The first half of it is a quote from Scripture of the greeting of the angel to Mary, "Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb." but the second half says, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." Besides giving Mary a title which Scripture does not, it asks Mary to pray for us. Indeed, Catholics not only see Mary as the one through whom ALL of God's grace flows, and the one who intercedes to her Son on our behalf, but Catholics also direct prayers to her to deliver people from sin, from war, etc. Pope John Paul II's prayer from the early 1980s to Mary is an example of such. In this prayer he repeatedly pleads to Mary to "deliver us" from nuclear war, famine, self-destruction, injustice, etc.

Again, never do we find a godly person in Scripture praying to anyone but God or asking for intercession by anyone but those still living on this earth. Prayer to Mary or to saints is not found in the Bible. Rather, Scripture directs us to pray to God (Luke 11:1-2; Matthew 6:6-9; Philippians 4:6; Acts 8:22; Luke 10:2, etc.)! God entreats us to come boldly unto the throne of grace (His throne) that we may find grace and help in time of need (Hebrews 4:14-16). God promised us that the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us according to the will of God with groanings that cannot be uttered (Romans 8:26). Why do we need to go through a saint, angel or Mary, especially considering the fact that neither the example of doing so nor the command of doing so is ever given in Scripture? Concerning prayer, we have the repeated example of two things in Scripture:

a) Prayer is made to God alone (1 Corinthians 11:5; Romans 10:1; 15:30; Acts 12:5; Acts 10:2; Acts 8:24; Acts 1:24; Zechariah 8:21-22; Jonah 2:7; 4:2, etc.)

b) Requests for prayer are made only to the living (1 Thessalonians 5:25; 2 Thessalonians 3:1; Hebrews 13:18, etc.)

In addition, nowhere is it taught that Mary is all-seeing, all-hearing, and omniscient (or nearly so), as she would have to be to hear and respond to the multitude of prayers that are directed toward her from the many Catholics who pray to her simultaneously around the world. Instead Scripture teaches that both angels and the spirits of the dead are finite beings, able to only be in one place at a time (Daniel 9:20-23; Luke 16:19f).

3) One of the repeated messages of Fatima is the call for personal "reparation" or "penance." This Catholic concept teaches that we must make amends to God and to Mary for the sins we have committed against them. Repeating one of the phrases from "The Message in General," the angel told the children to "make of everything you can a sacrifice and offer it to God as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended..." Reparation is defined as "an expiation ... something done or paid as amends; compensation." This ties in with the Roman Catholic teaching of temporal punishment which a person can take care of through penance now or through time spent in purgatory later. The Bible NEVER speaks of the need to make "reparation" for our sins or doing "penance" to pay for our sins. Rather, what it teaches is that we are to offer our lives as living sacrifices to God in gratitude for all of the mercies He has shown us in salvation (Romans 12:1-2). When a person becomes a Christian, his sins are forgiven and paid for in full by Christ. There remains no further payment that can be made for them, no further expiation required.

4) A key aspect of following the Lady of Fatima is the bowing down before and venerating the images associated with the apparition. Throughout the Bible, we find that any time someone bows down before one of the "saints" or angels, he is told to get up and to stop. Only when done to "the Angel of the Lord" (a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ) or before Jesus or God the Father is such veneration accepted. Catholics make a distinction between "worshiping" God and "venerating" Mary and the saints, but when John the Apostle prostrates himself before an angel, the angel does not ask, "Are you worshiping me or venerating me?" The angel simply tells him to stop and to "worship God" (Revelation 19:10). Likewise, when Peter was being "venerated" (prokuneo - the Greek word that the Catholic Church uses for "veneration" as opposed to "adoration" which only God deserves) by Cornelius in Acts 10:25, Peter tells Cornelius, "Stand up, I myself am also a man." It should be noted that prokuneo is used in the Revelation passage as well. Thus, we have the repeated example of an angel or "saint" being "honored" and the command to stop doing so!

Thus, praying to Mary is contrary to the scriptural admonition to pray to God and the scriptural example to do so. It is also illogical to substitute praying to an all-loving, omniscient, omnipotent God (Psalm 139; Hebrews 4:14-16) for praying to some saint or Mary, when there is no scriptural evidence that they can even hear prayers. To pray to saints and Mary on a worldwide basis is to ascribe to them the attributes of omnipresence and omniscience which God alone possesses—this truly is idolatry!

5)Concerning the "Miracle of the Sun," there are repeated cases in which "lying wonders" are spoken of in Scripture (Exodus 7:22; 8:7; 8:18; Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Revelation 13:13-14). God tells us in Deuteronomy 13:1f that when someone makes a prediction that comes true or gives a seemingly miraculous "sign," but he is teaching the worship of strange gods, not to give heed to him but rather to treat him as a false prophet.

For a Christian, the "content of faith" ought to be the Bible and what it teaches (Isaiah 8:20; 2 Timothy 3:16). And while Catholics may argue that the "Lady of Fatima" is not calling on us to worship "strange gods" but to worship the true God, the idea of venerating Mary to such an extent that her "Immaculate Heart" is put on the same level of devotion as Jesus' "Sacred Heart" is undeniably the exaltation of a woman to a position never given to her in Scripture—equality with God. To honor her as one would honor Christ is to exalt her. Likewise, to focus on Mary to such an extent that we spend more time praying to her than to God is also idolatrous, especially in light of the direct commands of Scripture to pray to God and the complete silence in Scripture concerning any exaltation of, or prayer to, Mary.

Was the "Miracle of the Sun" a lying wonder? Based on biblical teaching, it would certainly seem so. Satan has no problem mixing enough truth to make a teaching seem right with just enough error to damn souls to hell. Where is the gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Christ—the message repeated throughout the whole of the New Testament—ever mentioned in the whole message of Fatima? Where is it ever mentioned that salvation is only through faith in Christ's finished work on Calvary and that our works have no merit apart from Him (Ephesians 2:8-9)? Penance and making offerings for reparation of our sins are antithetical to Christ's finished work on Calvary and of our need for salvation by grace alone through faith in Him alone. Calling upon Mary and her “Immaculate Heart” and viewing the Rosary as the ultimate means of saving souls fly in the face of such biblical truths as Acts 4:12 and 1 Timothy 2:5. "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20).

I see where you're coming from, and from that point of view I agree, as Mary is not the mother of God the Father.

She is the mother of the Son, however, and as I ponder the many mysteries of Jesus and the Holy Trinity, I wonder how her pregnancy and being so connected to Jesus transformed her.

I also wonder how different her heart must have been and in what ways for her to have been chosen to be the Mother of Jesus, the Son of God.

And I also wonder what she morphed into after the death of her earthly human body.

I'm fairly late in life taking a serious interest in such things, but I notice how the majority of Christianity reveres and venerates Mary and are not offended by her being referred to as the Mother of God.

It's the side of Christianity I grew up around that has the problem, and all of this spiritual entropy and chaos of belief are yet another bunch of mysteries to me.

However, Satan is reputed to be a liar, a divider and a creator of chaos. Fwiw, the many divisions within Christianity and the reasons for them look a lot like his stuff to me.

Not surprisingly, there are what appear to be parallel versions of this same game running concurrently in political and educational systems here and around the world, that are slowly but surely pulling the post-WWII world order apart, too.

Fatima's warnings coming to fruition? Sure looks that way.

‘I’m fairly late in life taking a serious interest in such things, but I notice how the majority of Christianity reveres and venerates Mary and are not offended by her being referred to as the Mother of God.’

This would only be significant if Christianity were a democracy in which the majority could vote to impose their will/beliefs on the minority. As long as Christianity is a divine revelation of God, He, not the majority, ordains truth.

Matthew 12:46-50

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Changed Relationships

46 While He was still speaking to the crowd, behold His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.

47 Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”

48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?”

49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers!

50 For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

No messenger sent from God will ever be sent as an apparition.

Oh, you mean like when Moses and Elijah appeared in person during the transfiguration?

Oh, for extra bonus points the Transfiguration, is the fourth decade of the Rosary on Thursdays (The Luminous Mysteries). You mull over each of the points in turn below during each successive "Hail Mary."

The Fourth Luminous Mystery

THE TRANSFIGURATION

1. Jesus took Peter, James and John up a high mountain to pray.

2. Jesus was transfigured before them.

3. "His face became as dazzling as the sun, his clothes as radiant as light."

4. This was to fortify their faith to withstand the coming tragedy of the Passion.

5. Jesus foresaw the 'scandal of the cross,' and prepared them for it by this manifestation of His glory.

6. Moses and Elias (representing the Law and the prophets of the Old Testament) were conversing with Jesus about His Passion.

7. "Do not think I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets... but to fulfill them."

8. From a cloud came a voice: "This is my beloved Son, listen to Him."

9. Jesus admonishes them not to tell the vision to anyone until the Son of Man rises from the dead.

10. We too will behold the transfigured Jesus on the Last Day.

By far the best is to be imitators of Christ, our true example. Search the NT, and observe how many times we’re admonished to imitate Jesus. For this reason, it really matters whether we see examples of Jesus venerating Mary or not. Since He is our example, if He venerates Mary, so should we. If He refrains, we should refrain. Otherwise the admonition to imitate Jesus is meaningless.

All this extends to Paul as well. Can you point to an example of Paul venerating Mary? If not, how can a person both imitate Paul and venerate Mary? It’s a contradiction.

1 Corinthians 11:1

Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

While the entire Judeo-Christian tradition uses the same Scriptural content for the Ten Commandments, their exact division and numbering varies.

The Catholic tradition uses the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine. (The Lutheran confessions also use this numbering, while some other confessions & traditions use slightly different numberings.)

A comparison of Exodus 20:3-17 using the NASB translation compared to the Catholic Ten Commandments from beginning Catholic.com is provided for a comparison. The Traditional Catechetical Formula follows essentially the same pattern as the Beginning Catholic.com website except as noted.

The major omission in the Catholic list is the injunction against idols. In light of the Roman Catholic position on Mary and the relics one can understand this.

I have no idea why the Roman Catholic Church would not simply use either Exodus 20:3-17 or Deuteronomy 5:7-21 to learn the 10 Commandments other than not to call into question their position on Mary and the relics.

Exodus 20:3-17.	Beginning Catholic 10 Commandments
3 You shall have no other gods before Me	I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve. NOTE: The Traditional Catechetical Formula reads as follows I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me .
4“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5“You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,6but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.	You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
8“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORDblessed the sabbath day and made it holy.	Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
12“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.	Honor your father and your mother.
13“You shall not murder.	You shall not kill.
14“You shall not commit adultery.	You shall not commit adultery.
15“You shall not steal.	You shall not steal.
16“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.	You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”	You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
	You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

Not all.

I've read the other accounts of apparitions claiming to be Mary. They follow a similar pattern. Their message when examined fully is counter to what is revealed in Scripture.

Our Lady of Guadeloupe being one notable exception.

I do note that both Sola Scriptura and controversy about Mary seem to be the biggies as far as sticking points between Catholics and dratted Protties. ;-D

That being said, Jesus *did* say that when the Holy Spirit comes, He would guide {believers] into all truth; I also note that Paul writes to TImothy to pay attention to (TImothy's) doctrine and teaching, for by so doing he will save both himself and his hearers; indicating that doctrine and teaching are important.

As a believer in Christ I recognize Mary as the mother of Christ. We count her blessed. She was in need of a Savior as the rest of us for all have sinned.

That's a sticky theological point, and probably over my head. She was not "innately sinless" by any intrinsic merit or worth of her own; she did not "slip through the cracks" as far as sin; but the Catholic holding is that she was retroactively imbued with Divine Grace so as to be preserved from Original Sin. This points to Christ and not to her: her Immaculate Conception was His doing -- but I might suggest that inquiring are debating about the mechanism might quite literally be none of our business, as though we'd presumed to ask President Trump's plan for defeating North Korea's nukes: we have no right to know, and it is presumptively arrogant to ask.

We do not bow down before her or pray to her though. We are not to have idols of her. That would be in contradiction of the Scriptures.

We don't pray to her, but we ask for her help and intercession: much as one would ask someone after the 11:00 AM church service to pray for you. Even death cannot quench the fellowship of believers. (And besides, they're already *up* in heaven: at least, for most of them, we *hope* so.)

For Mary, though, there might be two factors: the Catholics believe because of her being chosen by God to be the mother of Jesus, she has more than the ordinary amount of God's favor ("Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!") and so God might give more consideration to her prayers. Also, Mary's suffering ("and thy own soul a sword shall pierce") gives her additional compassion towards others, and perhaps a role as a channel, a vessel, to deliver God's Grace and Mercy to a fallen world. ("Jesus learned obedience through the things that He suffered") as well as having redemptive power on their own: cf. St. Paul's statement in Colossians "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church." Think of it as "God wants to toss us as many lifelines as possible; for those who can't start by trusting in Jesus, talking to his Mom is like Grace with training wheels.

She is Jesus's mother as well: look at the old Testament, when one of Solomon's brothers prompts Bathsheba to ask King Solomon, to give him Abishag as his wife (she was the virgin who helped keep King David warm in his old age). Solomon sees his Mother and says, "What is it you have come to ask of me mother? You know I will not refuse you." So Jewish mothers tend to have influence over their son, right? Going all the way back to the wedding at Cana "What do I have to do with you, woman, my time is not yet come." And her response to the waiters, which is echoed in many Catholic teachings: "Do whatever He tells you." Hardly seeking her own glory, nor an idol.

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