Posted on 07/31/2017 1:18:27 PM PDT by ealgeone
We know of and speak about Mary only because of Jesus,
and Jesus = God = Son of God.
As with the Holy Trinity, to me, Mary is yet another one of the many mysteries.
Eccl. 9:5 but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
When Lazarus died, Jesus referred to it as a sleep. When he came back to life there was no mention of "Why did you do that?" "I was in Heaven, dude!". Nothing.
1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Your algebra fails you.
Recall the scene when Saul consulted the witch of endor to bring Samuel from the spirit realm to bless him ... didn’t get a dinner, er blessing.
Everybody looks for an apparition when they don’t like what the Lord has told them already.
Post of the thread!
Not following you, but am trying to. Fails me how?
Mary is not the Mother of God if that was what the algebra was supposed to prove.
Mary did not exist before GOD, so she cannot be the Mother of God. She can be the Mother of the human side of Jesus since her physical existence did precede the human body of Jesus.
Mary did not exist before GOD, so she cannot be the Mother of God. She can be the Mother of the human side of Jesus since her physical existence did precede the human body of Jesus.
We are in agreement. Catholics use Catholic algebra to say that she is that blasphemic designation.
It is not mind-reading. It’s reading verses in context. Mary is not mentioned anywhere in connection with “all have sinned and fallen short.” Thus, it is irrational to claim that this statement was intended to deny the Immaculate Conception.
Since that statement is true of every person to whom it is addressed, it is perfectly reasonable.
You already admit that JESUS is an exception, right? Even though he is not mentioned as an exception?
If you insist that the statement was intended to be absolutely exceptionless, then you believe Jesus was a sinner.
Was Jesus Divine? Was He at least partly God? Can God sin? Jesus came for all of mankind. Jn. 3:16 " For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." That was addressed to mankind. All of mankind including Mary.
". Mary is not mentioned anywhere in connection with “all have sinned and fallen short.”"
Mary is part of all. I have never heard a more asinine statement to do the mental gymnastics Catholics do to deny Mary was a sinner, needed a savior and died. Of course, Mary is part of all. The Immaculate Conception was Jesus NOT Mary. How can you get that one wrong?
Yeah cause Paul was preaching to or speaking about Mary.
Call out the grounds crew; as it seems that one of the goal posts is leaning a wee bit.
HMMMmmm...
An 1830 statement titled "Testimony of Three Witnesses"—one statement signed by three men rather than three separate statements—was published at the end of the first edition of the Book of Mormon:
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, his brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seeen [sic] the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shewn unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvellous [sic] in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
What is a mystery to me is why so many Catholics obsess over her.
There is NOTHING in Scripture that even HINTS about all this 'devotion' going on.
Neither was Arthur, but I'll bet GOOD money he was a SINNER; under the blanket word ALL.
It is; however; quite rational to state that good ol' common sense amply denies the Immaculate Conception.
Rome conjured up the idea that a GOD simply could NOT be born from a sinful woman; therefore Mary HAD to be born (and kept) sinless.
The logic you display here is NOT based upon math; is it?
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