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How to Think About Luther?
Crisis Magazine ^ | July 12, 2017 | James Kalb

Posted on 07/12/2017 4:52:31 PM PDT by ebb tide

How to Think About Luther?

James Kalb

Traditionally, Catholics have viewed Luther as a heresiarch, and the Lutheran break from Rome as a religious and civilizational catastrophe. More recently, in line with current ecumenical and pastoral initiatives, that view has softened.

The softening has been quite noticeable during the current pontificate. The pope recently took part in a joint liturgy with the Church of Sweden to commemorate the five hundredth anniversary of Luther’s rebellion. He has also suggested informally that a Lutheran married to a Catholic might legitimately decide to receive communion from a Catholic priest, and that disputes between Catholics and Lutherans over the doctrine of justification, the basic point at issue in Luther’s split with Rome, are now a thing of the past.

More generally, some papal language regarding law and mercy suggests movement away from the Catholic view that grace enables us to overcome our sins toward Luther’s view that it simply frees us from their consequences. Examples include the comment in Amoris Laetitia that

conscience can … recognize with sincerity and honesty what for now is the most generous response which can be given to God, and come to see with a certain moral security that it is what God himself is asking … while yet not fully the objective ideal.

So if you think it’s all you can do, that’s probably all God is looking for. Luther’s pecca fortiter, “sin boldly,” was based on a similar line of thought.

Are these moves in the right direction? The Church is hierarchical, and it is the pope and other clergy who are charged with teaching doctrine and determining appropriate pastoral and ecumenical efforts. Even so, laymen can hardly avoid forming their own views, and many Catholics find that recent ecumenical efforts have done more harm than good, as has a tendency to confuse “pastoral” with “accepting that people do whatever they do.”

Laymen have the right and even obligation to present these concerns. The issues matter a great deal, and not simply for churchly reasons. Our secular authorities are convinced they have the solution to all social and political problems, at least in principle, and can put it into effect through a global managed system that recognizes nothing human outside it, no authoritative God above it, no enduring human nature beneath it, and no significant history behind it other than the history of its own coming into being. Everything is a social construction, and they will do the constructing.

The project is unfounded, overreaching, and destructive, and Catholics should oppose it. But the ecumenical and interfaith movements, along with proposals for loosening sacramental discipline to accept common practices in the name of “accompaniment,” support it by sidelining specific religious principle. They turn it into something like the British monarchy, which lends historical depth and dignity to a modern utilitarian bureaucracy but does not affect its substance. So those who view current political and social trends as anti-Catholic and anti-human have an additional reason for concern regarding ecumenical and pastoral tendencies in the Church that support them.

Concern regarding the changing Catholic attitude toward Luther is all the more justified because he’s the man who initiated the Protestant split from Rome, a fundamental event in the emergence of the modern world, and a variety of liberal and radical movements have claimed him as an inspiration. So if we are troubled by the trend toward a global society organized through and through on wholly secular and increasingly intolerant principles, and want to understand where the trend comes from, we should know something about his thought and deeds and their consequences.

A recently published collection of essays put out by the Roman Forum, an organization founded by Dietrich von Hildebrand, can help. Luther and His Progeny: 500 Years of Protestantism & Its Consequences for Church, State, and Society includes pieces by a dozen European and American scholars of varying backgrounds, each with his own outlook and concerns, but all troubled by the man, the movement he launched, and current efforts to enlist them, along with Catholicism, in a grand scheme of political, social, and religious unification. Each essay is independent of the others, but collectively they cover the basic issues that led Luther to reject the Church, as well as the effects of his rebellion on European thought and society.

Taken together they present the picture of a revolution in religion, politics, law, ethics, economics, and even the natural sciences, the effects of which profoundly shape our present world. At bottom, what seems to have led Luther to break with Rome was his overwhelming sense of guilt over his inability to keep the moral law. He was in a mess, and the Catholic road of humility, penitence, forgiveness, sacrament, grace, and sanctification didn’t seem to be working for him, so he decided that the world itself is one huge irreversible mess. Man is totally depraved, reason a snare, free will an illusion, and the Church can do nothing and so is fundamentally useless. To make matters worse, God himself is willful, incomprehensible, and even self-contradictory, since he is good but makes man incapable of anything but evil.

Under such circumstances what do we do, if it makes sense to ask the question when we have no inclination or ability to think or choose rightly? Basically, Luther’s answer was to rely wholly on the mercy of Christ, who might—or might not—choose to cover up our sins and accept us as justified even though we would inevitably remain as corrupt as ever.

These are not reasonable views. How, for example, is a God worthy of love, worship, and trust who condemns to eternal torment sinners he made incapable of acting otherwise, but then arbitrarily chooses some, who are no better than the others, for forgiveness and eternal bliss? The best that can be done for such views intellectually, one of the essayists suggests, is to view them as a precursor of German idealism, which treats contradiction as fundamental to reality and its dialectical resolution as the basis of the self-construction of the Absolute. At the transcendent level that means, as Luther put it, that “God must first become the devil before he becomes God.” And at the human level, it means faith goes through radically different stages, with the transitions involving overwhelming temptations to unbelief and blasphemy, and ultimate resolution not possible in this world.

Some people think that sort of explanation makes sense, others don’t. A more psychological and likely more comprehensible approach that some have recently proposed is to portray him as a “mystic of mercy,” overwhelmed by the infinitude of divine grace, whose words cannot be taken literally. (Muslims take the same approach with their own mystics, whose words are rarely compatible with orthodox Islam.)

That approach may explain something of the man, but not the movement he started: people don’t look to the incoherent outbursts of mystics for practical tips on the reform of Church, State, and doctrine, but that’s exactly what Luther offered, and what people took from him.

The specifics are complicated. His thought wasn’t coherent, so people took from it what suited them. At bottom, though, denying the practical effectiveness of religion tended strongly to liberate secular affairs from religious concerns, and destroy the authority and the sacramental structure of the Church. And that, it appears, was the reason for the success of his rebellion. By insisting on the irrelevance of divine law to what men actually do, Luther enabled secular powers to shake off the authority of the Church, set themselves up as absolute within their domains, and incidentally enrich themselves and their supporters with the property that an ineffectual Church could no longer justify possessing.

All of which remains relevant today. Secular authorities still don’t like religious limitations, so if a contemporary religious leader wants to exchange scorn for adulation, all he has to do is ignore distinctions, loosen restrictions, and proclaim mercy without penitence or emendation of life. Neither talent, virtue, nor rational coherence is needed, only a willingness to go along in order to get along. And there are many high-ranking churchmen who are eager to accept the deal.

Editor’s note: Pictured above is Pope Francis with the General Secretary of the Lutheran World Federation Rev. Martin Junge (right) and the President of the Lutheran World Federation Bishop Munib Younan (far left) attending an ecumenical prayer service at the Lutheran cathedral in Lund, Sweden, Oct. 31. (Photo credit: CNS photo/Paul Haring)



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bergoglio; luther
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To: Luircin
I said, "Catholic popes".
321 posted on 07/13/2017 7:40:28 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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To: metmom
You have no choice in the matter.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

322 posted on 07/13/2017 7:44:02 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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To: Elsie

Feel free to show the utter ability of non-Catholics to separate theology from individual guilt.


323 posted on 07/13/2017 7:44:24 PM PDT by Steelfish
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To: HLPhat
It doesn't seem to be yours either! Like I said, neither you nor your wife nor your friends could possibly know what every student knew, discussed or read WRT Luther and the Jews. You aren't omniscient. And YES, it certainly has been decades since that 1983 acknowledgement. There really is no reason why anyone is ignorant about it today especially with the invention of the Internet (thanks algore).

Look, I really have no desire to continue on and on with you about this. I've explained my views, you have yours. You won't be able to convince me to stop admiring the many wonderful contributions Luther made to the understanding of Christianity and I doubt I can convince you to find a way to cherish the knowledge you did receive even if you feel things were hidden from you. Bury the dang beaten-to-shreds horse already!

324 posted on 07/13/2017 9:12:30 PM PDT by boatbums (The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
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To: ebb tide

I said, “Catholic popes”.

***

And who defines that, you?

I was under the impression that only the Church Magusterium was allowed to make decisions like that.

Or so I’ve been told over and over.


325 posted on 07/13/2017 9:22:36 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: metmom

And we are called “protestants.” :-)


326 posted on 07/13/2017 9:32:56 PM PDT by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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To: Elsie
Luke 18:11

The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people-robbers, evildoers, adulterers-or even like this tax collector.

Do you suppose Luther's name appears after "tax collector," in the DR version of the book Rome gave us? 😀😆🙃

327 posted on 07/13/2017 9:58:29 PM PDT by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
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To: BipolarBob
Agreed, one can only hope some members of your denomination are in it.

Ouch. That's going to leave a scar. 😀😄

328 posted on 07/13/2017 10:18:27 PM PDT by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
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To: HLPhat; metmom
Maybe she'd like to tell the class how her implementation of GPS doesn't need to adjust for relativistic effects upon time to obtain the accuracy necessary to guide cruise missiles?

I never worried about cruise missiles much, but I TERPED a bunch of Cat 11 ILSs and SIDs. We were familiarizing ourselves with GPS arrival and departure procedures criteria, when my TERPS career ended.
I know Cat 1 and Cat 11 ILS procedures, took into account earth curvature, but I didn't get deep enough into GPS criteria, to know if earth curvature affected GPS arrival procedures.

329 posted on 07/14/2017 1:58:07 AM PDT by Mark17 (Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
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To: Mark17
Do you suppose Luther's name appears after "tax collector," in the DR version of the book Rome gave us?

No, more like this:

O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.

...

Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Go and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown. Israel was holiness unto the LORD, and the firstfruits of his increase: all that devour him shall offend; evil shall come upon them, saith the LORD.


Micah, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verse five,

Jeremiah, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses one to three,

as authorized, but not authored, by King James

330 posted on 07/14/2017 5:28:23 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: NFHale
While we’re here, we should understand who the enemy is and show a solid wall of solidarity.

Indeed we should!

Satan expresses himself in millions of ways.

Our Solid Wall will; by design I think; have lots of holes in it. Like the Blind Men inspecting the elephant, Inspector A will NEVER agree with Inspector C over what they have right in their hands.

The following comes to mind:

Luke 9:49-50

“Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.”

“Do not stop him, Jesus replied, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

But; so does this:

1 John2:18-27
 

18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.


331 posted on 07/14/2017 5:33:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: redleghunter

NO one wants their gullibility exposed for the world to see!

It’s one thing to get fooled; another to get called on it.


332 posted on 07/14/2017 5:34:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums
Like THIS??


YOU made a typo;

therefore NONE of your posting is valid!!!

333 posted on 07/14/2017 5:38:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fortes fortuna juvat
...those terms are NOT synonyms.

In for a penny;
In for a pound.

334 posted on 07/14/2017 5:40:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
...the Church of Peter ...

WHAT??!!??


335 posted on 07/14/2017 5:41:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom; Normandy; teppe; StormPrepper
Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: (Promulgated November 18, 1302) “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
 
 
Wait; Mom...
...this has been updated!!
 
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
-- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
-- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
-- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
 

 
 
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion."

Brigham Young, October 9, 1859
Intelligence, Etc.
Remarks by President BRIGHAM YOUNG, delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.
Reported by G. D. Watt
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
Brigham Young,    --JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8 p. 224


God is my “right hand man.”[8]

(Joseph Smith, in a letter to James Arlington Bennett on November 13, 1843, History of the Church, (Deseret Book, 1975), vol. 6, p. 78.)


"God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it."

Joseph Smith at the LDS Conference on April 8, 1844, History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 319-320.


"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil—all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter- day Saints never ran away from me yet."

Joseph Smith, Sunday, May 26, 1844 History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-9.



 "We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.”

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, p.48


“As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.”

Lorenzo Snow, Mormon Prophet and president


"The day will come—and it is not far distant, either—when the name of the Prophet Joseph Smith will be coupled with the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Son of God, as his representative, as his agent whom he chose, ordained and set apart to lay anew the foundations of the Church of God in the world, which is indeed the Church of Jesus Christ, possessing all the powers of the gospel, all the rites and privileges, the authority of the Holy Priesthood, and every principle necessary to fit and qualify both the living and the dead to inherit eternal life, and to attain to exaltation in the kingdom of God."[5]

Joseph F. Smith, sixth president of the LDS Church, Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [1939], p. 134; as quoted in “Joseph Smith: Restorer of Truth,” Ensign, (Dec. 2003): p. 17.


“Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation. . . They are gods.”

 (LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg. 237).


“We stand in reverence before him [Joseph Smith]. He is the great prophet of this dispensation. He stands at the head of this great and mighty work which is spreading across the earth. He is our prophet, our revelator, our seer, our friend. Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas. God be thanked for the Prophet Joseph”

(Gordon B. Hinckley, the fifteenth president of the LDS Church, Ensign article entitled “Joseph Smith: Restorer of Truth,” December 2003)


My brothers and sisters, in this bicentennial year of his birth, I should like to speak of our beloved Prophet Joseph Smith. . . . In the 135th section of the Doctrine and Covenants we read the words of John Taylor concerning the Prophet Joseph: “Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.” [D&C 135: 3]

(Thomas S. Monson, counselor to President Gordon B. Hinckley, the semi-annual LDS Conference in Salt Lake City, 2005)

 


336 posted on 07/14/2017 5:48:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. For Cyril says in his Thesaurus: “Therefore, brethren, if we imitate Christ so as to hear his voice remaining in the Church of Peter and so as not be puffed up by the wind of pride, lest perhaps because of our quarrelling the wily serpent drive us from paradise as once he did Eve.” And Maximus in the letter addressed to the Orientals [Greeks] says: “The Church united and established upon the rock of Peter’s confession we call according to the decree of the Savior the universal Church, wherein we must remain for the salvation of our souls and wherein loyal to his faith and confession we must obey him.” — St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38
 
 
Mom...
...you tryin' to make Catholic heads explode??
 

337 posted on 07/14/2017 5:50:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fortes fortuna juvat

Dang!

I left the quotes and reference off!

https://youtu.be/9-cPWheNyaA?t=17


338 posted on 07/14/2017 6:02:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fortes fortuna juvat

Indeed.

But there is a type of mindset that hopes to find some disparity in the delivery, so that the content may be dismissed without dealing with it.


339 posted on 07/14/2017 6:04:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fortes fortuna juvat

Depends on how one defines the relevant terms
and the conditions and circumstances prevailing
in relation to those terms.

340 posted on 07/14/2017 6:07:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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