Brothers and Sisters?

OSV.com ^ | 05-01-17 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Brothers and Sisters?

Q. I know that the Church believes in Mary’s perpetual virginity, but what are we to make of the passages in the Gospel that refer to Jesus’ brothers and sisters?

Rose, via email

A. There are a number of places in the New Testament (see Mk 3:31-34; 6:3; Mt 12:46; 13:55; Lk 8:19-20; Jn 2:12; 7:3-10; Acts 1:14; and 1 Cor 9:5) where Jesus’ kinsfolk are mentioned using terms such as “brother” (adelphos), “sister” (adelphe) or “brethren” (adelphoi). But “brother” has a wider meaning both in the Scriptures and at the time they were written. It is not restricted to our literal meaning of a full brother or half-brother in the sense of sibling.

Even in the Old Testament “brother” had a wide range of meaning. In the Book of Genesis, for example, Lot is called Abraham’s brother (see 14:14), but his father was Haran — Abraham’s brother (Gn 11:26-28). So, Lot was actually a nephew of Abraham.

The term “brother” could also refer widely to friends or mere political allies (see 2 Sm 1:26; Am 1:9). Thus, in family relationships, “brother” could refer to any male relative from whom you are not descended. We use words like kinsmen and cousins today, but the ancient Jews did not.

In fact, neither Hebrew nor Aramaic had a word meaning “cousin.” They used terms such as “brother,” “sister” or, more rarely, “kin” or “kinsfolk” (syngenis) — sometimes translated as “relative” in English.

James, for example, whom St. Paul called the “brother of the Lord” (Gal 1:19), is identified by Paul as an apostle and is usually understood to be James the Younger. But James the Younger is elsewhere identified as the son of Alphaeus (also called Clopas) and his wife, Mary (see Mt 10:3; Jn 19:25). Even if James the Greater were meant by St. Paul, it is clear that he is from the Zebedee family, and not a son of Mary or a brother of Jesus (in the strict modern sense) at all.

The early Church was aware of the references to Jesus’ brethren, but was not troubled by them, teaching and handing on the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity. This is because the terms referring to Jesus’ brethren were understood in the wider, more ancient sense. Widespread confusion about this began to occur after the 16th century with the rise of Protestantism and the loss of understanding the semantic nuances of ancient family terminology.

[Mark17]

We can line up every Greek scholar on the planet to explain this and the Catholic will still disregard the lesson. Their indoctrination is very strong.

I am thankful that my indoctrination was pretty weak, compared to some Catholic apologists. That way I was more open to the truth, and I ran with it. Praise God for small favors, huh? 😊

[af_vet_1981]

Your assertion is that the modern Orthodox Church asserts that they always asserted it, so that’s proof.

I assert that the Orthodox and Catholic churches East and West have an unbroken tradition that the Virgin Mary remained a virgin. Is your view your own individual opinion or do you belong to a particular faith community ?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Your assertion is without evidence of being taught by a single Apostle or even a deacon before 100 ad.

[mrobisr]

The Jews had/have many corrupted traditions also and wouldn’t see faith as the key to salvation. Sounds familiar doesn’t it, same devilish story different ages and unfortunately the fates are the same also.

[Mark17]

Can we agree that the word Bible IS in the Bible or is this just one more word game?

To most Catholic apologists, I think it is just another word game. I am glad I was never a Catholic apologist, or I might never have come to a knowledge of the truth, of the simplicity that is in Christ. I would suspect you might have similar ideas. 😃

[af_vet_1981]

I am thankful that my indoctrination was pretty weak, compared to some Catholic apologists. That way I was more open to the truth ...

When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee. And he must needs go through Samaria. Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

John, Catholic chapter four, Protestant verses one to nineteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Elsie]

I meant that question seriously, Elsie.

I thought you meant THIS; serioiusly:

Goodnight and peace to all.

[mrobisr]

“A modern reconstruction,”
Sorry the rcc view is the modern view I subscribe to the view of the original teachings of Jesus Christ, Prophets, and Apostles.

[Elsie]

Mary is not the passive actor here, she actively participated in the action of conception, just as she actively participated in delivering Him into the world.

Now THERE is a mental image that Rome has tried SO hard to erase!!

[af_vet_1981]

The Jews had/have many corrupted traditions also and wouldn’t see faith as the key to salvation. Sounds familiar doesn’t it, same devilish story different ages and unfortunately the fates are the same also.

I'm well aware that the liturgies of the Jews and the Catholics have common origins and that those who tend to despise the Catholics also tend to despise the Jews.

[Elsie]

Mary, sinful? Not according to what the Archangel Gabriel called her.

What DID the angel call her?

[af_vet_1981]

Sorry the rcc view is the modern view I subscribe to the view of the original teachings of Jesus Christ, Prophets, and Apostles.

Which denomination or sect ?

[Elsie]

Mary, sinful? Not according to what the Archangel Gabriel called her.

OH?

then why...

---

 

 

 

Luke 2:22-24

 

When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord  (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”),  and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: “a pair of doves or two young pigeons.”

 

Leviticus 12:7-8

 

Then he shall offer it before the LORD and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female.
'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'"

 

 

 

 

Sinless Mary??

  Not according to Rome's Book.

[mrobisr]

“For thou hast had five husbands”
Funny you use that Holy Scripture... Jesus forgave her of divorce 5 times, but your cult wouldn’t have forgiven her of one divorce let alone 5.

[Elsie]

He wrote it in three languages. Clearly at least those three were in widespread use in Jerusalem in those days.

How DARE you use common sense!!

[af_vet_1981]

or perhaps a former Catholic ?

Former Catholics are drawn to these Catholic threads like moths to a flame, unfinished business, so to speak.

[mrobisr]

I don’t despise either religion, but both have missed the mark. Rcc has killed many a Jews in the past, present, and will in the future. Don’t pretend to know my heart when you can’t even read a plain English Bible or history book.

[mrobisr]

Christian we were first called that at Antioch before that we were called “The Way”. It started in Jerusalem not in Rome, but Rome will try to end it in Jerusalem.

[boatbums]

Remember it was not I who started this discussion. You came to an obviously Catholic-based thread, which was discussing Catholic beliefs, to dispute them. These threads are not trying to impose Catholic beliefs on anyone who chooses not to hold them, they simply explain why Catholics believe what they do for anyone who is interested. No one is forced to read them, no one is forced to accept what they contain. Why can you not just leave Catholics to believe what they believe?

Please stop with that! Your ire is better directed to the person(s) who POST open Religion Forum threads whereby they are inviting discussion, comments, etc. Don't blame non-Catholics for participating on these kind of threads where Catholics don't just "simply explain why Catholics believe what they do", they openly challenge others to explain why they may NOT agree with what Catholics believe. Just as you assert no one is forced to accept what they contain, no one is forced to read the opinions and views of those who dispute what they contain. I really hope you get this and cease trying to disrupt the thread. Thank you.

[af_vet_1981]

Christian we were first called that at Antioch before that we were called “The Way”.

It seems to me you indicated that The Way is your faith community, or you are a very, very old man.