Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: ealgeone; ebb tide

No reasonable person would rely on you cut-and-paste Protestant anti-Catholic presentation of the Catholic Faith for a fair telling of what the Faith and Scripture teach.

You just keep trotting out the same old same old as if you’re actually telling the truth when you’re only distorting and misrepresenting things as usual. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3539119/posts#4

ebb tide gave a good response to you - that he or she would pray the Rosary for you. I’ll do the same.

Now, on to the points which you misrepresented by presenting them as a false dichotomy between Scripture and the promises:

“3) The Rosary shall be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin, and dispel heresy..”

This promise, along with #4, is simply a reminder of how fervent prayer helps us grow in holiness by strengthening us to avoid sin. The Rosary is especially good in this regard because the meditations are often about self-denial, perseverance, and spiritual resignation before God. An increase in holiness necessitates that we choose God over sin and doctrinal errors or heresies. See Lumen Gentium Chapter 5, paragraph 42. Mary’s intercession was always requested by good Christians when having to deal with heresies and heretics.

Saying that prayer to God for aid in holiness armors us against Hell in no way violates anything in Ephesians 6:10-17. When Jesus taught us to pray the Our Father one of the specific things we were to pray for was forgiveness of our sins and His aid in avoiding sin (Matthew 6:9-13). In the Rosary, we ask Mary to intercede for us with God so we can avoid sin and avoid Hell.

“5) Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary, shall not perish.”

The Virgin Mary is a spiritual mother to us since she is our Lord’s mother and He is our Savior and Brother, and she’s a great advocate for us with her Divine Son as well. Christians have always sought out her assistance and the Church even points this out in the beautiful Memorare prayer, “never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help or sought your intercession, was left unaided”. I know many people who have been aided through Mary’s intercession. This was foreseen in the story of the Wedding of Cana.

Nothing in that violates John 3:16-18 for all that Mary does she does through the power of God in service to her Divine Son. Mary has always been the handmaid of the Lord and always will be in her spiritual capacity. Jesus made her. Jesus made her a saint. She cooperates with His plan even today.

“11) What you ask through my Rosary, you shall obtain.”

This emphasizes Mary’s role as an advocate for us. Of course, all requests are subject to God’s will - and He naturally answers according to His plan in regard to our need and disposition. The promise is not absolute. An ignorant person might take it that way. A person with no regard for the truth who wishes to attack the Catholic Church would certainly portray it that way.

God grants requests that He deems good for our soul, our salvation, and Mary, as a perfected saint in Heaven, only intercedes for us when our request is good for our salvation as part of God’s plan. And, as is clearly noted in Lumen Gentium, Chapter VIII, paragraph 62, where the Second Vatican Council pointed out, “This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.”

So, once again, we see how you were wrong. Nothing in the promise violates 1 John 5:14-15 since Mary goes to Jesus for everything. When Jesus walked the earth people asked Him to heal them. When He ascended into Heaven people turned to the Apostles for healing and even used objects that touched the Apostles for healing (Acts 19:12). If God can use a handkerchief on earth to heal physical illness, He can use the intercession of a saint in Heaven and prayers of the saints on earth to help heal those suffering spiritual illnesses.

Protestants need to take care when interpreting the Bible since their natural disposition, grounded in error, is to come to some wrong-headed conclusions. Here’s a minor example:

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/the-flaming-herald/46667-jesus-never-told-us-to-pray-for-the-sick


720 posted on 04/21/2017 6:44:36 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 713 | View Replies ]


To: vladimir998

Keep spinning Vlad...keep spinning.


721 posted on 04/21/2017 6:50:12 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 720 | View Replies ]

To: vladimir998
ebb tide gave a good response to you - that he or she would pray the Rosary for you. I’ll do the same.

If you pray for me, please do so to God as all prayer is to be directed to Him.

Saying that prayer to God for aid in holiness armors us against Hell in no way violates anything in Ephesians 6:10-17. When Jesus taught us to pray the Our Father one of the specific things we were to pray for was forgiveness of our sins and His aid in avoiding sin (Matthew 6:9-13). In the Rosary, we ask Mary to intercede for us with God so we can avoid sin and avoid Hell.

I always find it amazing that no where do we have any of the NT writers telling us to pray to Mary or to rely upon Mary for answered prayer or salvation.

One of the problems with the Rosary is the overwhelming emphasis on prayer to Mary.

And are we not instructed to avoid vain repetitious prayers? The Rosary certainly seems to fall into that category.

“11) What you ask through my Rosary, you shall obtain.”

This emphasizes Mary’s role as an advocate for us. Of course, all requests are subject to God’s will - and He naturally answers according to His plan in regard to our need and disposition.

Your note..."all requests are subject to God's will" is in contradiction of the open ended promise of the Rosary.

The promise is not absolute. An ignorant person might take it that way. A person with no regard for the truth who wishes to attack the Catholic Church would certainly portray it that way.

Whatever you ask....sure sounds like an absolute.

>> “5) Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary, shall not perish.”<<

The Virgin Mary is a spiritual mother to us since she is our Lord’s mother and He is our Savior and Brother, and she’s a great advocate for us with her Divine Son as well.

No where in the NT is Mary ever accorded being our "spiritual mother." Another false claim of Roman Catholicism. It illustrates again that Jesus is somehow insufficient for the Roman Catholic.

Christians have always sought out her assistance and the Church even points this out in the beautiful Memorare prayer, “never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help or sought your intercession, was left unaided”.

You would be more accurate in saying Roman Catholics have always sought out her assistance. And the word always is a stretch as that is an absolute word.

I know many people who have been aided through Mary’s intercession.

Of which we can neither confirm or deny.

This was foreseen in the story of the Wedding of Cana.,

Promise 5 is telling the person to trust themselves to "me"...that is the apparition.

It is is in contrast to the NT where we are told to trust ourselves to Jesus...not Mary. Just one of the many reasons Roman Catholics worship "Mary".

Mary, as we see her in the Bible, would never tell anyone that "those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary, shall not perish." She would be appalled at anything that took away the focus from Christ.

The wedding of Cana has been one of the most abused passages of Scripture by Roman Catholics to justify a whole range of false teachings regarding the Roman Catholic "Mary".

725 posted on 04/21/2017 7:13:04 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 720 | View Replies ]

To: vladimir998
One follow up....I noticed you didn't answer previously.

Do you wear the Scapular? Maybe the Miraculous Medal?

727 posted on 04/21/2017 8:22:33 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 720 | View Replies ]

To: vladimir998
No reasonable person would rely on you cut-and-paste Protestant anti-Catholic presentation of the Catholic Faith for a fair telling of what the Faith and Scripture teach.

So we should listen to the folks who believe that apparatrions come from Heaven and give humans additional instructions from the throne of GOD?


OK then...



743 posted on 04/22/2017 4:46:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 720 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson