Posted on 04/10/2017 6:40:46 PM PDT by fishtank
Evangelical Apologist Hank Hanegraaff Converts to Eastern Orthodoxy
Posted by: Rob Bowman
On Palm Sunday, April 9, 2017, Hank Hanegraaff formally joined the Orthodox Church. Since 1989 Hanegraaff has been the President of the Christian Research Institute (CRI) and (since ca. 1992) the host of CRI’s Bible Answer Man radio program.[1] Hank, his wife Kathy, and two of their twelve children were inducted by a sacramental rite called chrismation into the Orthodox faith at St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, near where CRI is based. In chrismation, a baptized individual is anointed with oil in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.[2]
(Excerpt) Read more at religiousresearcher.org ...
Haven't you heard?
No good dedicated highly learned madly skilzed gatherer (and planter!) of figs of thistle would ever contemplate such a thing.
Forgiveness is required of others. Those sinners must beg for it. The non-sinners need never apologize for a thing.
We can know they are always right in this because they always tell us so. That they are right, and those sinners --over there (yeah, those guys, again --- not "us" guys, no never ever EVER) are wrong. well maybe once-- and "we" admitted to it, which proves our humility which we can pride ourselves upon along with being always right
You’re gonna be audited!
Is that en e-meter in your pocket, or are you just happy to have opportunity to joke around about serious things, trying to get people to ---- what more exactly are you trying to get done? Get them to think? Think what?
I'll be audited [eventually -- of course]. Including over being facetious in comment 484. But you weren't exactly intending to imply that(?) although we can all assume we will be brought into account for each idle word...for it is written that we shall.
I was hoping to express ---that all of 484--- was opposite of what we should do.
Best intentions are still not good enough to set aside (and be put in place of) what's Holy, though. There's always that...
I'd just written too, to another person on how demonic forces have no creative abilities, so can only mock and imitate ---and there I was, mocking. Yet, I wasn't mocking Holiness...
I was mocking what seems to me to have been set in it's place, and called 'holy', but is only that on best of days, and among humble personages ---other than the One who truly is capital H, Holy, that is. Where He may be among them, there could be (would be?) holiness found, I surely would like to think.
I will be audited though, someday, by the Lord (even more so than as I go along here in earthly life existence, for He does examine me even now). In our futures, when we finally meet Him face to face, we all will be thoroughly examined. All I have to plead is the blood of Jesus. How's that for an audit? That blood better be found on me, eh?
Pockets full of e-meters won't clear the customs office upstairs. Sorry Scientologists. You won't be flying no F-14's, or no 707's (even if you have, or once had a pair) up those final stairs. Not those.
Here still downstairs as it were, prior to the final visit to The Office, what do we do to busy and amuse ourselves> More inventory taking, more audits. Will this tending to the accounts never end?
Will be audited ---but no STOOPID e-meters--- and not on the grounds of, an audit of "the books" a Mr. Jerk Inquisitor (as seen also here, and here) was thinking he could audit for me as if he was doing the greatest service, a holy work. It was Crusade.
After some amount of continuing unreasonable intransigence on his part in this (his attempt to audit me-- which was also in part, deflection away from complaints about his own previous rudeness -- there's that audit thingy again) I turned the tables, and the Inquisitor ended up being audited, himself... right out in front of God and everybody.
Ok, all 39 everybody or less everybodies? who read through, and followed the that long, drawn out and torturous conversation.
What this was also about, that was going chiefly unsaid, is that in addition to the aspect of there having been contention over corporeal presence (of the 'body' of Christ) in the bread of communion (the physical bread itself, that is ordinary bread until it ceases to be bread at all ---according to RC assertions, anyhow) is the idea that has been implanted among Romanists that their 'Church' is The Body.
I deny that. Yet wasn't being openly "audited" and tried upon those grounds, although that was what was in the heart and mind of Mr. Jerk -- clearly enough for me to see. No mind-reading necessary.
I deny that; that ecclesiastical organization is God Incarnate upon the earth (any more than other Christians both are, and ARE NOT --at the same time, if that makes any sense) and so was allegedly denying the Incarnation and Resurrection of Christ more fundamentally
The man had gone so far in the false accusation department, he had at one point compared myself to the Cathars, the kind that the Church of Rome had centuries ago slaughtered by the thousands, in some instances seizing those persons entire towns and villages, distributing the property among the RCC, those who had done the dirty work for the RCC, and the prelates of that same ecclesiastical "body".
I took offense. The entire program/crusade against me was dirty, despicable, deceitful attempt to read into inventory things I do not possess, then judge and condemn me on strength of continually repeated false accusations.
The one who perpetrated such acts (of accusing another -- me that is) is the one who's more truly in darkness than I am, and appears to me to be trying to drag people away into it. Misery loves company? Going over land and sea to win a proselyte only to make them twice the child of hell those who embark upon such journeys are? (Matthew 23:15). If what I am doing here is working at supplying basis for having second thoughts for anyone contemplating "converting" to Catholicism, the antagonist was being the best guy on my team(?).
I can say that without running afoul of the Book of James, and of being unkind, and unloving --I think. I've already said it. Too late now...
If you had, or have any problems with me about this, please, tell me what those are plainly so I need not guess towards intended meanings. Could you do that, I mean, do "it" that way, if you were to have something further you'd think I need to know and consider?
Well, AFV, these Scriptures are among my most favorite, but not for the reason your use of them seems to indicate. So see that you handle them correctly. A wise man once advised me, "Be careful, for one of the most dangerous things in the world ths the Devil with a Bible in his hands, and open."
Regarding anointing, God had Samuel anoint Saul of Kish, a man without saving faith, to be King over Israel (1 Sam. 9:16, 10:1). There was no report there in the Scripture of the Holy Spirit being anywhere near Saul.
It happened later that the Holy Spirit did come upon Saul (didn't enter him), but later left him in his error.
On the other hand, the LORD appointed Samuel to anoint David to be the king (which he was not at the time of anointing, that finally occurred a long time after), and at the time of the anointing ceremony, God did send His Holy Spirit, deliberately coincidentally, to be with David (didn't enter him as indwelling, the way He does in regenerating a human to be a true disciple of the Messiah) ever after without departing (1 Sam. 16:13; though David did sin, and mightily at that). The Holy Spirit left Saul (verse 14), forever.
Now, what do you think about that, Mr. Bible-Answer Man? Are you of the Hannegraaff ilk? And what does the Holy Ghost have to do with oleaginous material?
Uh oh, careful what you ask for! Elsie is the Don Rickles of the Catholic and Mormon threads!!!
488/666 = .732732732732732 . . . ad more infinitum
". . . a baptized individual is anointed with oil in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Is this true, doctrinally, or not? Give a Scriptural reference that unquestionably, without the shadow of a doubt, supports your conclusion.
So why appear to have been disagreeing with imardmd1 having said;
Samuel did anoint Saul, yet still, the Spirit did not necessarily come upon Saul at that moment of anointing, but only later, Samuel prophesying that it would be when Saul met
Can you see it?
Although anointing with oil be associated with having the Holy Spirit at some time and place visit upon a person, it is by no means a sure methodology that such visiting upon --if occur at all--- would be an abiding indwelling.
Lest we forget, catholics believe their Priests can direct God to do things, so when a catholic priest (regardless of his state of immoral living) places the ‘consecrated oil’ on someone, God is obliged to put The Holy Spirit into or onto that one. Since catholics believe the priests of their religion can call Jesus in His glorified state down from Heaven, to be sacrificed continually in His pre-risen state at the catholic altar, well dabbing a bit of oil on someone to herd the Holy Spirit where the priest wants Him is a little matter don’tchaknow.
This is false in every part.
MHGinTN, I consider you a tolerably good neighbor and, what's much more, a fellow-Christian; but you have to stop saying things about other Christians that are just nor true, and 10 minutes' worth of research in the Catholic Catechism would have shown that to you.
Or you could'a asked. That would show a minimum respect for accuracy.
Nobody appreciates untruths told about their religious beliefs. Please cut that out.
Thank you, my brother.
And have a happy Third Day of Easter Week.
sO, EXPLAIN THIS THEN, SINCE YOU ARE ACCUSING ME OF UNTRUTH. You might want to reference ‘Faith of Millions, Obrien ...
Hey, we also have some writers in Catholicism that tell us we can go to Mary to get things done or prayers answered when Jesus is being to slow or says no.
I've posted this before with sources.
The Catholic doesn't like this exposed and I can understand why as in stands in contradiction of the New Testament.
This was first promised by the Savior, at the table if the Last Supper, and had not yet happened even when they had partaken of the symbols of His substitutionary death.
"If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another1 Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
but ye know him; for he dwelleth with2 you, and shall be in3 you" (Jn. 14:17 AV).
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Notes:
1 = αλλον (allon) = another of the same kind (The Holy Scriptures are also a comforter, Rom 15:4)
2 = As long as the baptized Jesus was with them, The Holy Spirit Who was accompanying Him was also with them, in the external sense, though invisible. On His ascension, The JHoly Spirit went with Him back into Heaven to witness the propitiation of the Mighty God, thus accrediting the Shed Blood as the only acceptible ransome price for the payment for the Sin and sins of the willing and totally committed believer, so that the eyewitness of the conclusion of the atonement transaction could then return and cohabit with the New Spiritual Human in the Old Man's husk of a body, able to transform its mind and habits, which is to be the human's reasonable service and spiritual worship.
3 = The return of The Holy Ghost was to occur on the Day of the Pentecost, on which the occupation of the Holy Spirit in a human beings (outside of that of John Baptist at conception) was conferred, without physical application of unguent substance.
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It would seem to me that anyone truly saved, having chosen to be an abode of the Holy Ghost, would already jnow these things.
Are you a Spirit-born possession and servannt of The Son, AFV?
Even the Pope --- as we have seen so abundantly from the present pontificate --- is prone to personal opinions which are at best pious but imprecise, and at worst pernicious and subject to formal correction. Which I hope will come up for him sooner rather than later. (C'mon, Cardinal Burke, get a move on.)
In the Mass, the principal actor is Christ. Every prayer in it (with the exception, I think, of the Agnus Dei) is directed to God the Father and to the Holy Spirit.
The Mass is not God doing what we "tell" Him to do. It's us doing what God tells us to do. To state it otherwise is to get it all twisty-tailed around.
The most ancient "part" of the Liturgy is the Words of Institution, quoted by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians ("This is my Body.." etc.) Next-oldest documented is the Epiclesis, found in the Liturgy of St. James (that's St. James of Jerusalem, first century). According to the most ancient form, the anaphora/epiclesis is as follows:
Priest (aloud): Thy people and Thy Church entreat Thee. (thrice)People: Have mercy on us, Lord God, the Father, the Almighty. (thrice)
The Priest, in a low voice: Have mercy on us, Lord God, the Father, the Almighty. Have mercy on us, God our Saviour.
Have mercy on us, O God, in accordance with Thy great mercy, and send forth upon these holy gifts, here set forth, Thine all-holy Spirit, (bowing) the Lord and giver of life, enthroned with Thee, God and Father.
And Thine only-begotten Son, co-reigning, consubstantial and co-eternal, who spoke by the Law and the Prophets and by Thy New Covenant, who came down in the form of a dove upon our Lord Jesus Christ in the river Jordan, and rested upon him, who came down upon Thy holy Apostles in the form of fiery tongues in the upper room of holy and glorious Sion on the day of Pentecost.
(Standing up) Thy same all-holy Spirit, Lord, send down on us and on these gifts here set forth,
(aloud): that having come by his holy, good and glorious presence, He may sanctify this bread and make it the holy Body of Christ,
People: Amen.
Priest: and this Cup (chalice) the precious Blood of Christ,
People: Amen.
Mary isn't even mentioned except in the "I confess," in which she is asked, along with all the angels and saints -- saints both in heaven and on earth, our brothers and sisters --- to pray for us sinners, priest and congregation alike:
I confess to Almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do;
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
Amen.
That doesn't sound like the priest ordering Christ around, or Mary ordering her Son around, does it?
I appreciate your posting your partial impressions on this forum so I can get in a little more well-rounded Remedial Catechism. Though it's hard to keep up, especially for a slothful teacher like myself. But it's good for me, too.
So, thank you.
His book was noted to be without error.
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