Posted on 04/03/2017 7:45:32 AM PDT by Salvation
Recently in my Our Sunday Visitor “Question and Answer” column came the following question from a Catholic convert, in reference to the traditional understanding of the Lord’s promise to the Church: the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it (Matt 16:18).
“Before my recent conversion, my (protestant) pastor said that Catholics misunderstand the text about the gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church. He said that it is silly that Catholics think of gates as if they were an offensive weapon being wielded against the Church. He said gates cannot attack us, they just sit there. Rather, he said, we are called to attack them. Gates are something to storm to enter a fortress. Thus, he said the text means that we are to storm Hell’s gates and take back territory from the devil and that the gates of Hell could not ultimately prevail against our attack.”
This interpretation has made the rounds in certain Protestant circles in recent years. In effect, it boils down to taking the word gates in a rather literal way. The pastor humorously pointed out that gates don’t normally go around attacking things. Such a comment elicits a good laugh, but humor or ridicule does not always disclose the truth. As it the case with many things, language admits of subtleties. Let’s explore the figurative meaning of the word gates.
The Greek word underlying our English translation is πύλαι (pulai), and gates is a fine translation.
However, Strong’s Greek Concordance and Greek Lexicon of New Testament indicates that in antiquity, pulai was also used to indicate authority and power.
Contextually, it would seem rather obvious that Jesus does not have literal gates in mind. First of all, Hell does not have iron or wooden gates. Second, because Jesus speaks of the gates as “not prevailing,” it would also seem that He has in mind something more than mere inanimate objects of some kind. As inanimate objects, gates do not prevail or lose; they just sit there. However, the powers of Hell can and do act.
Thus, it seems clear that our Lord uses the word gates in a figurative rather than literal sense. He likely means that the powers of Hell would not prevail against the Church, although they will surely try.
Finally, while there may be a certain pastoral sense in which the Church attacks the strongholds of the Hell in this world in order to gain back territory for the Kingdom, this is not really the best passage to make that point. Frankly, the Church should not seek to storm the gates of Hell! One storms gates in order to be able to get into the place they demarcate—but who wants to enter Hell? Should not the Church and her members seek to avoid going there? Is there not also an abyss that prevents those who enter Hell from escaping (see Luke 16:26)? Instead of hoping to storm the gates of Hell and get in, we hope that the gates of Hell are sealed off by the Lord and locked from the outside (see Rev 20:3)! There is no point in trying to enter Hell. Whatever is there is there permanently. There is no return from Hell.
Therefore, this rather trendy notion that we are to storm the gates of Hell should be set aside. Jesus clearly uses the gates of Hell as a metaphor for the power of Hell. Hell’s power will not ultimately prevail. God wins!
As for storming the gates of Hell—don’t do it! Our battleground is this world and the souls here for which we can still fight.
I know.
You've enough problems dealing with the Flights of Fancy coming from the headquarters of your chosen religious organization.
Like your current pope?
I just hope it worked out for them.
It will be --- to say the least --- interesting to see if he can be persuaded to abdicate, which is how the last huge intra-church crisis (the Western Schism of 1378 to 1417) was resolved at the Council of Constance.
* BTW, there are several reasons why I don't think he will attempt an infallibility gambit. First, his "method" has always relied on strategic ambiguity and a wink-and-a-nod pastoral practice, not a clear definition of heretical doctrine. Second, if he tried to "infallibilize" his error, he'd be called to Divine Judgment --- I trust---before he pulled it off.
Am amusing but true 2-minute YouTube explanation. Check thou it out.
Gotta keep that guy away from microphones.
Yes, tharts a very tender subject with them. Do I not remember that ypu have posted that transubstantiation was invented much later on, long after the demise of the Apostles and than the apostolic “fathers”?
I wonder: there was a period in the catholiciism religion when Rome dismissed Judaism and took the perspective that Catholiciism replaced Judaism. Perhaps that lingers as stop for seeing the Old Testament Truths that have been fulfilled in Jesus? The seekers after signs should have known the passage from Jeremiah and thus have been able to catch the metaphor used to signify The Spiritual Bread from Heaven transition Jesus gave them from Mana to Him. Again, thank you for opening this issue more fully. Pray it penetrates a few hearts!
Show us the verses where Jesus established the sacraments used by the Catholic church and named them as such in Scripture (using the word *sacrament*) and then show us the references where we are instructed in Scripture on how they are to be performed and the claim that they impart grace.
Chapters and verses, please.
That alone shows that the interpretation of John 6 meaning a literal, physical eating of His flesh and blood is the incorrect one.
Going through the motions or religious rituals does NOT impart spiritual life.
Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’
But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Unbloody sacrifice
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P41.HTM
1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner."188
So they offer an unbloody sacrifice, which is not and CANNOT be the same as the bloody one Jesus made for several reasons, and then tells the participants they are eating and drinking His blood. So just where does that blood come from if it's an *unbloody sacrifice*?
Drinking blood is a pagan practice and NOT for Christians.
It is also forbidden by the Council at Jerusalem by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Eating blood directly violates the entire weight of Scripture therefore, the eating mentioned by Jesus in John 6 cannot be literal eating. It must be metaphor. And Jesus even told us Himself that that was the case.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Thanks for defending the Truths of The Word once committed to the saints and transmitted to us by translation. Sometimes it becomes tricky to convey it with dignity, without wrangling, especially with someone who has not been called to teach doctrine but presumes to take up that role anyway.
You have touched on the essence of our faith. We believe in Jesus Christ and we believe the words He spoke.
He spoke; we believe.
May you have a blessed Holy Week and may the peace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, be with you.
Rich
. . . or equipped . . .
Yes. 2 Peter 1:4 "... He has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature.."
Second, can you 'run out of' or 'lose' this Divinity of Jesus so that it must be renewed in your spirit?
I wouldn't say "run out of." But yes, you can sin, and sin seriously, even after having received this blessed Sacrament of the Lord's Body and Blood. If you turn against God --- and this is by making an evil choice --- you can lose the Divine Presence.That's why St. Paul gives this very serious warning with regard to sacrilegious reception of the Eucharist:
1 Corinthians 11:29 (KJV)
"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's Body."
-- You believe you receive The Holy Spirit of God into your human spirit by eating what you believe is a wheat wafer transubstantiated into the real flesh and blood of Jesus, God with us ...
--Do you also believe that this Presence of The Holy Spirit of GOD in your human spirit can be lost, then regained by once again eating this transubstantiated wafer?
Before I go further, is that a fair representation of what you believe?
I know you're honestly trying to re-state what I said, but you're choosing words I wouldn't exactly have chosen. So --- I ask your patience --- let me try this again.
Your paraphrase: "-- You believe you receive The Holy Spirit of God into your human spirit by eating what you believe is a wheat wafer transubstantiated into the real flesh and blood of Jesus, God with us ..."I believe I receive the whole, living Christ --- Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity --- when I receive the transubstantiated elements of the Eucharist.
This does not imply that I lacked God's presence before I received Communion. On the contrary, to receive Communion one has to already be in a State of Grace, which means one is already enjoying the presence and the favor of God. If a person who is not in a State of Grace receives the Body and Blood sacrilegiously, they are not only lacking "Communion with God," they actually offend Him and even further close themselves off to Grace and Presence.
Your paraphrase: "--this Presence of The Holy Spirit of GOD in your human spirit can be lost, then regained by once again eating this transubstantiated wafer?""Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me." Psalm 51:11 KJV
I can at any time lose the presence of God in my soul by choosing serious sin. My union with God can then be restored only by asking forgiveness from Him: by repentance of my sin, confession, and absolution with a sincere desire to turn away from sin. That in itself would restore the life of God in my soul; and then, from that point, I would be properly disposed, spiritually, to go forward to receive Communion.
If I show you withy Scripture where you are in error in your resoning, will you read it and think about it?
So --- with all due respect to you, dear lady, and to Sacred Scripture ---I don't see any reason to apply a "sola" approach to my answer.
This is not our first time around the block. Too often we find ourselves here on the Religion Forum arguing in circles, because Sola Scriptura cannot be established by the Bible, "chapter and verse." The "Scriptura" part, yes, but not the "Sola" part. Scripture alone does not even contain, and cannot establish, its own Table of Contents, its own Canon. But that's a discussion for another day.
Now to your question, without the “sola”:
1. From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Peter: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins."
2.Letter to the Hebrews: the doctrine concerning Baptism and the laying on of hands is listed among the first elements of Christian instruction. The imposition of hands is the origin of the sacrament of Confirmation.
3. Eucharist:
Mark 14:22-24 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is My body." And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
John 6:53-57 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.
1 Corinthians 10:16-17 Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.
4. Penance : God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).
5. Anointing of the Sick: The apostolic Church has a special rite for the sick, attested to by St. James: "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders [presbyters] of the Church and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven." (James 5:14) This is now called the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.
6. Holy Orders: Ordination to the various orders in the Church was always made by the rite of the laying on of hands. We read of the deacons, how the Apostles "praying, imposed hands upon them" (Acts 6:6). In 2 Tim 1:6 St. Paul reminds Timothy that he was made a bishop by the imposition of St. Paul's hands (also I Tim 4:4), and Timothy is exhorted to appoint presbyters by the same rite (I Tim 5:22; ---also check out Acts 13:3 and Acts 14: 22).
7. Matrimony:”Natural marriage” was actually established by God in Genesis, as a covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, for the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring. With the coming of Christ, this covenant was raised to the dignity of a sacrament (“Mysterium magnum”, Ephesians 5:21-33) because it is an outward sign of the mystical union of Christ the Bridegroom and His Bride, the Church.
But--- not intending to slight you, good neighbor, but just because of my limited time as this is Holy Week--- could you keep it under, say, 700 words?
I hereby promise to read and think. Amen.
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