Posted on 04/03/2017 7:45:32 AM PDT by Salvation
Recently in my Our Sunday Visitor “Question and Answer” column came the following question from a Catholic convert, in reference to the traditional understanding of the Lord’s promise to the Church: the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it (Matt 16:18).
“Before my recent conversion, my (protestant) pastor said that Catholics misunderstand the text about the gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church. He said that it is silly that Catholics think of gates as if they were an offensive weapon being wielded against the Church. He said gates cannot attack us, they just sit there. Rather, he said, we are called to attack them. Gates are something to storm to enter a fortress. Thus, he said the text means that we are to storm Hell’s gates and take back territory from the devil and that the gates of Hell could not ultimately prevail against our attack.”
This interpretation has made the rounds in certain Protestant circles in recent years. In effect, it boils down to taking the word gates in a rather literal way. The pastor humorously pointed out that gates don’t normally go around attacking things. Such a comment elicits a good laugh, but humor or ridicule does not always disclose the truth. As it the case with many things, language admits of subtleties. Let’s explore the figurative meaning of the word gates.
The Greek word underlying our English translation is πύλαι (pulai), and gates is a fine translation.
However, Strong’s Greek Concordance and Greek Lexicon of New Testament indicates that in antiquity, pulai was also used to indicate authority and power.
Contextually, it would seem rather obvious that Jesus does not have literal gates in mind. First of all, Hell does not have iron or wooden gates. Second, because Jesus speaks of the gates as “not prevailing,” it would also seem that He has in mind something more than mere inanimate objects of some kind. As inanimate objects, gates do not prevail or lose; they just sit there. However, the powers of Hell can and do act.
Thus, it seems clear that our Lord uses the word gates in a figurative rather than literal sense. He likely means that the powers of Hell would not prevail against the Church, although they will surely try.
Finally, while there may be a certain pastoral sense in which the Church attacks the strongholds of the Hell in this world in order to gain back territory for the Kingdom, this is not really the best passage to make that point. Frankly, the Church should not seek to storm the gates of Hell! One storms gates in order to be able to get into the place they demarcate—but who wants to enter Hell? Should not the Church and her members seek to avoid going there? Is there not also an abyss that prevents those who enter Hell from escaping (see Luke 16:26)? Instead of hoping to storm the gates of Hell and get in, we hope that the gates of Hell are sealed off by the Lord and locked from the outside (see Rev 20:3)! There is no point in trying to enter Hell. Whatever is there is there permanently. There is no return from Hell.
Therefore, this rather trendy notion that we are to storm the gates of Hell should be set aside. Jesus clearly uses the gates of Hell as a metaphor for the power of Hell. Hell’s power will not ultimately prevail. God wins!
As for storming the gates of Hell—don’t do it! Our battleground is this world and the souls here for which we can still fight.
Monsignor Pope Ping!
Bumparooney
Now if the Msgr would understand John 6 in context he'd be getting somewhere.
He does. Specifically the context that the John 6 oration was given at Passover exactly a year before the Last Supper, and the context that the listeners did not at all understand it metaphorically, which is why they left.
Seems like a strawman set up to knock down to me. I’ve never associated the “gates of hell” with gates to hell, and haven’t heard people teaching to that effect.
Saying certain circles is a dead giveaway it is a strawman, for in “certain circles” you can find, in the extreme, congregations that claim to be Christian embracing homosexuals or teaching liberation theology (as well as racist subtypes like black liberation theology) as well as many other things that amount to rejecting Scripture or proclaiming a different gospel.
Not that I’m saying this “certain circles” certain circle is extreme enough to have departed from the truth.
Personally, I’d observe that the passage more likely applies to tearing down spiritual strongholds in people’s hearts ... which is how the enemy often operates. These are arguably “gates” of a sort, representing both offensive power and defensive position.
Also, just to pick at nits, hell isn’t presently where we find the enemy, no matter what Dante’s fantasies may say, for if they were there where they will finally be throw we would have no more problems from them. So on that level I can say that someone must be confused, either about the present location of the enemy, who is actually in charge of hell, or has misunderstood what folks were saying to them.
John 6 is about faith/belief in Jesus. Not eating/drinking the flesh and blood.
sounds like opinion to me.
So can a priest have an opinion?
Is your statement and opinion?
Not according to what Catholics on these threads have told us.
There is no personal opinion on Scripture per Roman Catholicism.
There's the crux of it. Those crazy Protestants taking figurative things literally. I've never ever heard of a real Protestant preacher taking such a position. Msgr. Pope must be running out of material to dream this one up.
“Hell” means, here, the place of departed spirits, particularly evil spirits; and the meaning of the passage is, that all the plots, stratagems, and machinations of the enemies of the church would not be able to overcome it a promise that has been remarkably fulfilled." - Barnes Notes
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/matthew-16.html
"The gates of hell,i.e, the machinations and powers of the invisible world. In ancient times the gates of fortified cities were used to hold councils in, and were usually places of great strength. Our Lord's expression means, that neither the plots, stratagems, nor strength of Satan and his angels, should ever so far prevail as to destroy the sacred truths in the above confession. Sometimes the gates are taken for the troops which issue out from them: we may firmly believe, that though hell should open her gates, and vomit out her devil and all his angels, to fight against Christ and his saints, ruin and discomfiture must be the consequence on their part; as the arm of the Omnipotent must prevail." - Adam Clarke Commentary
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/matthew-16.html
Catholics understand that the Jews in the Scriptures and the current protestors do not have Faith in the Words and teachings of Jesus about our need to eat and drink His Body and Blood for eternal life.
While the Jews understood the meaning of words of Jesus, the protestors made up their own meaning and personal interpretation.
I praise the word of God;
I trust in God, I do not fear.
What can mere flesh do to me? Psalms 56
Doing so would violate the OT prohibition on consuming blood. The catholic position is incorrect. We appropriate Christ through faith.
This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:28 NASB
He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Mark 14:24 NASB
I don’t agree that consuming God’s Body and Blood that was given for our salvation was intended to be against the old testament.
On the contrary, Jesus (God) commanded us to take and eat and drink His Body and His Blood for eternal life.
That was the position of Jesus as he taught His Apostles and His followers (Catholics).
You can believe whatever you want, but it is contrary to what Jesus taught. Your presumption that you know more than Jesus amazes me. I do not understand how you claim to “appropriate Christ” a) to take exclusive possession or c) to take or make use of without authority or right? (Webster’s Dictionary)
So do you believe “The Word became Flesh?”
False Teachers.* 1There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.a 2Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.b 3In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destruction does not sleep.c 2Peter 2
The Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth. . . .
From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace.
John 1:14, 16
The only reason to “storm” anyplace is to try to get IN. So not storming the gates of Hell is pretty much a no-brainer!
Same here.
Never heard that storming the gates of hell was our responsibility.
Our position in spiritual warfare is petitioning before the throne of God.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
**The only reason to “storm” anyplace is to try to get IN. So not storming the gates of Hell is pretty much a no-brainer!**
Wise man, there. BTTT!
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