Posted on 01/02/2017 4:25:11 AM PST by BlessedBeGod
...If the Church were to change its rules on shared Eucharistic Communion it would “go against Revelation and the Magisterium”, leading Christians to “commit blasphemy and sacrilege,” an Italian theologian has warned.
Drawing on the Church’s teaching based on Sacred Scripture and Tradition, Msgr. Nicola Bux, a former consulter to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stressed that non-Catholic Christians must have undertaken baptism and confirmation in the Catholic Church, and repented of grave sin through sacramental confession, in order to be able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist.
Msgr. Bux was responding to the Register about concerns that elements of the current pontificate might be sympathetic of a form of “open Communion” proposed by the German Protestant theologian, Jürgen Moltmann.
The concerns have arisen primarily due to the Holy Father’s own comments on Holy Communion and Lutherans, his apparent support for some remarried divorcees to receive Holy Communion, and how others have used his frequently repeated maxim about the Eucharist: that it is “not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.”
The debate specifically over intercommunion with Christian denominations follows recent remarks by Cardinal Walter Kasper who, in a Dec. 10 interview with Avvenire, said he hopes Pope Francis’ next declaration will open the way for intercommunion with other denominations “in special cases.”
The German theologian said shared Eucharistic communion is just a matter of time, and that the Pope’s recent participation in the Reformation commemoration in Lund has given “a new thrust” to the “ecumenical process.”
Pope Francis has often expressed his admiration for Cardinal Kasper’s theology whose thinking has significantly influenced…the priorities of this pontificate, particularly on the Eucharist.
For Moltmann, Holy Communion is “the Lord's supper, not something organized by a church or a denomination”...
(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...
Still trying the old out of context thing?
We KNOW your tactics and from whom you learned them!
From your link......."To understand why the charge does not work, one must first understand the use of the word "father" in reference to our earthly fathers. "
Jesus isn't addressing the normal use of the word *father* by children.
The context here is where He's addressing the TITLES used by religious leaders. And He's talking to the DISCIPLES, the same ones that Catholics claim He gave the ability to retain and forgive sin.
So this is meant for them, and since y'all consider them a separate class of people, this applies to the rest of your hierarchy, just as Catholics claim anything else Jesus said to His disciples means through apostolic succession.
Matthew 23:1-12 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
And He gives the reason.
We are all BROTHERS.
Elevating one person above another is being a respecter of persons, which the Holy Spirit in James tells us is a sin.
But Jesus command is crystal clear.
We are not to use the title *father* for religious leaders, nor are they to accept it.
26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shalt come upon thee, and the power of the most High shalt overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shalt be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren:
37 Because no word shalt be impossible with God.
38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
(shall / shalt is NOT 'asking' Mary if she'll do something for GOD)
(This ain't CONSENTING or ASSENTING)
Oh yeah!
They’re off in one corner of my mind; all jumbled up.
This is Catholic Answers’ most important fundraiser of the year, and there is still time for you to help.
I see.
A snippet of scripture from Here, a little from There, a tad from Over this way and BINGO! (OOps; sorry...) you have really good reasons for IGNORING Christ's words...
1 Cor 4:14-15
14 I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
Their church buildings are called Chapels. You can see them for miles. They all look the same, always white and very ornate. It is a living example of them making merchandise over the people.
They are a one issue rant. They deny the deity of Christ. They are very exclusive, just like the Catholics, it's their way, or the highway. They are a cult with a capital C. I used to deal with them, but they are so wrapped up in false doctrines, that it is an exercise in futility. If one is going to deal with them, one must get them out of the country first.
Now, if you really want to know what a cult is, check out Apollo C Quiboloy. That dude is a walking cult, all by himself.
And NOBOdY called Paul *Father Paul*.
The point you seem to be missing is that there is a perfectly valid reason to believe Jesus was speaking hyperbolically when He said “call no man father”. Again, from the link I provided previously:
“The first problem is that although Jesus seems to prohibit the use of the term “teacher,” in Matthew 28:19–20, Christ himself appointed certain men to be teachers in his Church: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” Paul speaks of his commission as a teacher: “For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth” (1 Tim. 2:7); “For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher” (2 Tim. 1:11). He also reminds us that the Church has an office of teacher: “God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers” (1 Cor. 12:28); and “his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers” (Eph. 4:11). There is no doubt that Paul was not violating Christ’s teaching in Matthew 23 by referring so often to others as “teachers.” “
Do you call anyone a teacher? Or for that matter “doctor”, which is simply from the Latin for “teacher”? If you greet any one as “Doctor so and so” then you too violate Jesus’ “simple” command, if it’s to be taken strictly literally and not hyperbolically.
The spiritual “father-son” relationship between St. Paul and others is amply demonstrated in Scripture. (cf. Gal. 4:19; 1 Tim. 1:18; 2 Tim. 2:1; Philem. 10; 1 Pet. 5:13; 1 John 2:1; 3 John 4). To suggest those referred by him as “son” or “child” did not aptly return the favor simply because no sentence exists that says “Father Paul” is to demand too much from the text, akin to demanding the word “Trinity” appear in order to believe in that concept.
“And here is how I legally can ...
I see; relying upon the words of OTHERS to try to rationalize YOUR actions.
Got it.”
For the world to observe:
Does Elsie have a problem with following the law?
Hhhhhmmmm. “Lawlessness will increase in the last days...”
Oh, yea, that was prophesied. Now I get it.
“That’s not a prayer of Augustine:
http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/BVM/OBeataVM.html
So you see the spiritual danger of trusting men over Scripture? You are advising people here under false pretenses (unintended by you, I am sure - I do not question your sincerity) to issue an idolatrous prayer of an 11th Century bishop...”
I see you are trusting Michael Martin’s words over words presented by others.
If you actually trusted scripture over the words of men you would not have assured your readers that I have issued “an idolatrous prayer of an 11th Century bishop” which you cannot prove. Yet you are so sure that my source is wrong and yours is correct, even though you earlier said your only sure facts are those you found in scripture.
You can’t have it both ways.
THAT is the one biggest lie Satan tries to place in the mind of man.
So, prove it.
And should men supposing guidance by the Holy Ghost through His unearthly communication the Holy Written Word be wrangling with them over the matter?
"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Gal. 6:1 AV).
Elsie, "meek" does not mean "weak." It does not mean timidity, nor does it mean retiring from the field rather than standing for the right, in the Truth given by God, against the conjectures of error-laden men, however subtil:
"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand" (Eph. 6:13 AV).
It means obedience to Him, in contending for The Faith:
"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for (T)he (F)aith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 1:3 AV; my editing).
To contend does not mean to wrangle like children:
"These things teach and exhort.
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself" (1 Tim. 6:2g-5 AV; my editing and emphasis).
Let me suggest that the arguments be laid without falling into the morass of spiteful replies, of demeaning homiletics that they all seem to turn to when their conjectures fail and the illegitimacy of their false allegorizing hermeneutics is exposed. Don't get personal. Deal with the subject and the method. Do not deign to descend to the vulgarity that they love.
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" 2 Thess. 2:15 AV).
Try to achieve the level of humility of attitude but superiority of position that Elsie seems to be gifted with:
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit" (Prov. 26:4,5 AV).
Our friend knarf has it right. Wrangling just engenders more wrangling, especially when deconstructing the falsities of the RCC catechistic volume of compiled and multiplied errors. It is a Gordian knot that binds the RCC soul, but can be severed by the Alexandrian method of applying a stroke of the Word of God, sharper than a double-edged sword, dividing asunder the soulish way (used by the Romanists) from the Spiritual way of the regenerated truly mature disciple and friend of Christ.
Personally, I am greatly humbled by the wise, sharply reasoned, and (under it all) compassioned replies that y'alls have made through the years, by which I have been instructed and brought to a greater fellowship with the real Jesus and Christ of the Bible, as well as an improved sense of the soul-stirring import of His Word.
Keep on keeping on, eh?
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Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6) ...learn in us not to think of men above that which is written... (1 Corinthians 4:6) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5) And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. (Matthew 28:9) |
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Mariolatry |
Scripture |
Similitude to created beings |
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O BLESSED Virgin Mary, who can worthily repay thee thy just dues of praise and thanksgiving, |
Whom have I in heaven but Thee? (Psalms 73:25) He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalms 62:2) Blessed be the name of the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the Lord's name is to be praised. (Psalms 113:2-3) I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving. (Psalms 69:30) For in the days of David and Asaph of old there were chief of the singers, and songs of praise and thanksgiving unto God. (Nehemiah 12:46) |
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. (Jeremiah 7:18)
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thou who by the wondrous assent of thy will didst rescue a fallen world? |
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12) Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:22) |
...these be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (Exodus 32:8) |
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it is by thy intervention alone that it has found the way to restoration? |
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) |
And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. (Leviticus 10:1) |
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obtain by thy prayers the remission of our offenses. |
In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah. (Psalms 62:7-8) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (1 John 2:1) |
And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, shall be defiled as the place of Tophet, because of all the houses upon whose roofs they have burned incense unto all the host of heaven, and have poured out drink offerings unto other gods. (Jeremiah 19:13) |
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Carry thou our prayers within the sanctuary of the heavenly audience and bring forth from it the antidote of our reconciliation. |
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: (Hebrews 9:24) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (Hebrews 10:18-20) |
And in every several city of Judah he made high places to burn incense unto other gods, and provoked to anger the Lord God of his fathers. (2 Chronicles 28:25) |
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May the sins we bring before Almighty God through thee, become pardonable through thee |
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:15-16) |
And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men? (Jeremiah 44:19) |
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thou art the sole hope of sinners. |
He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved. (Psalms 62:6) I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. (Isaiah 43:11) |
And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. (1 Kings 18:26) |
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Through thee we hope for the remission of our sins, and in thee, O blessed Lady, is our hope of reward |
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:24-25) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. (Isaiah 53:12) |
Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. (Jeremiah 44:25) |
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Make it thy continual care to pray for the people of God, |
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Romans 8:34) |
But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes..(Jeremiah 44:17) |
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didst merit to bear the Redeemer of the world..
Bishop Fulbert of Chartres (ca 951-ca 1029), O Beata Virgo Maria |
I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which thou hast shewed unto thy servant.. (Genesis 32:10) (Psalms 130:3) And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour...his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. (Luke 1: 46-47,50) |
Say unto the king and to the queen, Humble yourselves, sit down: for your principalities shall come down, even the crown of your glory. (Jeremiah 13:18) |
To answer the question raised by the title of this thread, I could not find it possible to break the bread of remembrance with most of the entities you mention. To do so would be to confirm them in their multitudinous errors regarding the Faith once (hapax) delivered to the hagioi, which same unchanged faith needs to be continually reiterated to new or confused professors of a relationship with the Christ of the Bible, the Only Begotten Son of the Father.
Thank you for this note of warning, and for your continuous posting of related articles regarding The Faith to that end.
Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
oops ... just got myself informed .... not being a “regular”, I get confused
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