Theologian: Shared Communion With Protestants Would be Blasphemy and Sacrilege

National Catholic Register ^ | January 2, 2017 | Edward Pentin

[BlessedBeGod]

...If the Church were to change its rules on shared Eucharistic Communion it would “go against Revelation and the Magisterium”, leading Christians to “commit blasphemy and sacrilege,” an Italian theologian has warned.

Drawing on the Church’s teaching based on Sacred Scripture and Tradition, Msgr. Nicola Bux, a former consulter to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stressed that non-Catholic Christians must have undertaken baptism and confirmation in the Catholic Church, and repented of grave sin through sacramental confession, in order to be able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist.

Msgr. Bux was responding to the Register about concerns that elements of the current pontificate might be sympathetic of a form of “open Communion” proposed by the German Protestant theologian, Jürgen Moltmann.

The concerns have arisen primarily due to the Holy Father’s own comments on Holy Communion and Lutherans, his apparent support for some remarried divorcees to receive Holy Communion, and how others have used his frequently repeated maxim about the Eucharist: that it is “not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.”

The debate specifically over intercommunion with Christian denominations follows recent remarks by Cardinal Walter Kasper who, in a Dec. 10 interview with Avvenire, said he hopes Pope Francis’ next declaration will open the way for intercommunion with other denominations “in special cases.”

The German theologian said shared Eucharistic communion is just a matter of time, and that the Pope’s recent participation in the Reformation commemoration in Lund has given “a new thrust” to the “ecumenical process.”

Pope Francis has often expressed his admiration for Cardinal Kasper’s theology whose thinking has significantly influenced…the priorities of this pontificate, particularly on the Eucharist.

For Moltmann, Holy Communion is “the Lord's supper, not something organized by a church or a denomination”...

[metmom]

There’s nothing the enemy likes more than to keep people in the bondage of fear, especially believers who have nothing to fear.

You are doing your task well.

[metmom]

Weird as it is, some people just can’t let go of their fear. They cling to it for whatever reason.

I for one am more than thrilled for God to have removed it from me.

I can now live a life free from fear, just like Jesus did.

[mrobisr]

“Read all that Jesus taught and ask if you are obedient to it all. In as much as you aren’t, you don’t have faith in his miracles.”

You miss the point completely on the reason for...
The Savior Jesus Christ!
EVERYONE FAILS!!!

Joseph, Mary, Pope, me, you, and every other lump of clay has, does, and will fail.

This is the very reason for the Law is to show humanity that no one except Jesus can live up to the standard (Law) of God.

We didn’t pick God He picked us and called us to His Son.
Ephesians 1:4

We didn’t have our own faith He gave it to us to begin with. Acts 15:11, Ephesians 2:8, Romans 9:16

We have all sinned and all will continue to sin.

1 John 1:10Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Romans 3:23Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

23 For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

Romans 3:9-18Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

9 What then? Do we excel them? No, not so. For we have charged both Jews, and Greeks, that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: There is not any man just.
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 All have turned out of the way; they are become unprofitable together: there is none that doth good, there is not so much as one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have dealt deceitfully. The venom of asps is under their lips.
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery in their ways:
17 And the way of peace they have not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Luke 1:46-47Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.

Your/my church fallen, your/my parents fallen, and your/my earth fallen and cursed, but rejoice beloved for our Great Savior Jesus took our crown of thorns, took our nails, took our stripes. took our plucking, and took our death so that we could and have freedom and eternal life guaranteed.

The thief on the crossed summed it up exactly to the point.
In his time of near death on the cross he come to the reality that he was fearing/reverance of God.

He admitted I have sinned and deserve the cross and the death because of what I have done in life.

He admitted that Jesus was innocent.

He finally realized that he had nothing left, nothing to give, or nothing he could do except put his faith in Jesus Christ and he said Jesus remember me when you come into your Kingdom. At that very moment Jesus said today you will be with Me in Paradise.

Notice at that very moment the thief was saved, and while he was on the cross still dying he was being saved, and and later that day he was in Paradise with Jesus saved.

Example... I was saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

Note the one difference between rc’s and prot is that you rc’s think that the church, pope, Mary, or you can do something for God, but prot thank God for what He has already done for us realizing we are just too lost to do anything for Him.

All we can do is have Faith in what He has already done, not what we can or will do.

Hebrews 11:6Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

6 But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.

Romans 10:9-11Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith: Whosoever believeth in him, shall not be confounded.

[af_vet_1981]

Who here has perfect love ?
There is both a holy fear and love that leads one to obedience. As the Messiah emphasized in Luke, we are to fear him. We are also to love him and obey him.

Praise ye the Lord. Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.


Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Psalms, Catholic chapter one hundred twelve, Protestant verse one,
Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty two, Protestant verses thirty seven to forty,
John, Catholic chapter fifteen, Protestant verses nine to seventeen, as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[af_vet_1981]

Whatever bro. Of course, I disagree with your interpretation, but hey, that's OK. I probably disagree with 80% of your interpretations. If you want to live your life in fear, never knowing for sure if you are saved or lost, that is your choice. I just have no intention of living like that. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I think I understand your point of view quite. I opt instead to accept all the words of our LORD Jesus Christ, to live my life in a holy fear as He commanded, to love and obey, trusting Him to make me perfect in every good work to do His will. In that sense, I am not afraid of fear. I know if I do as He commands, I shall be saved, even as I am being saved now. It is quite reassuring and inspiring.

[Springfield Reformer]

For if in anything I have boasted to him about you, I am not ashamed. But as we spoke all things to you in truth, even so our boasting to Titus was found true. And his affections are greater for you as he remembers the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him.
(2 Corinthians 7:14-15)

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love Him because He first loved us.
(1 John 4:15-19)

Who is right? John or Paul?

Peace,

SR

[af_vet_1981]

Who is right? John or Paul?

They are both right, and the LORD Jesus is right. Fear, love, and obey.

[Mark17]

There’s nothing the enemy likes more than to keep people in the bondage of fear, especially believers who have nothing to fear.

You are doing your task well.

I don't know if many people on this forum are saved or not. I will say this, if they are not saved, I can understand why they live in fear. I would too. But, since I AM saved, and know it beyond ANY shadow of a doubt, I don't live in fear, like others who have no hope. Aren't you glad you don't live in fear either?

[af_vet_1981]

I note the beginning of that first passage you quoted from the letter to the Corinthians dovetails nicely with those we have been sharing.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Second Corinthians, Catholic chapter seven, Protestant verse one,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Springfield Reformer]

They are both right, and the LORD Jesus is right. Fear, love, and obey.

No, they cannot all be right IF fear (Greek phobos) has the exact same meaning in all three cases, because that would be a contradiction in Scripture, and that is impossible.

On the one hand, John says there is no fear in love. Yet clearly the reception given Titus was one of love. Therefore, fear in the sense John meant it cannot have been a factor. Else Scripture is broken, and Scripture cannot be broken.

Faith is not a call to mental suicide. You cannot have A and Not A be true at the same time and the same way. The law of non-contradiction is applicable even to Scripture.

But there is an easy solution. John speaks of the kind of fear associated with punishment. "Torment" as it is in the English. It is the dread of judgment. Once there is love, one does not live in dread of judgment. But there is another kind of fear, and it has nothing to do with the dread of judgment, but the sense is closer to "respect," or "reverence," which may involve some trembling, but NOT the torment of worrying about eternal damnation. So Titus is loved, and reverenced, but that same love removes any dread of judgment. There is no contradiction. "There is no fear in love." John said it. I believe it. Do you?

As for "perfect" love, the Greek word for "perfect" (teleioo) as John uses it here is not about flawlessness but about something accomplishing it's purpose. And clearly in that sense it can and does apply to us merely mortal, imperfect believers, as John says, this "Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment." This is not the image of living in dread of some overlooked mistake that will cost you your soul come the day. This is the compassionate John encouraging believers in Jesus that they have nothing to fear come the day of judgment, but can enter into that day with boldness. As well they should. The price has already been paid. We do not live in dread of punishment, the torment of the possibly damned. We live in the joyful expectation of a spectacular reception into the heavenly home and loving arms of the One who died for our sins.

Peace,

SR

[Mark17]

I opt instead to accept all the words of our LORD Jesus Christ

Me too bro. I just differ sometimes, with your interpretations.

to live my life in a holy fear as He commanded

Define fear. I define fear, not as a lost person fears the Lake of fire, but fear is the awesome, reverential respect, a saved person has for God. No shrinking violets.

make me perfect

Define perfect. I define perfect, as when God says be ye perfect as I am perfect, this way. It does not mean sinlessness. It means one is to go on to spiritual maturity and uprightness. It means to be a mirror image to the righteous character of God. Not a sinless person.

if I do as He commands, I shall be saved, even as I am being saved now.

Define do as He commands. I say it means "believe" on Him who He has sent (John 6:29) Define "believe." It does not mean to simply know about Him. It means to trust Him, to cling to Him, to rely on Him, to trust Him 5 seconds after you're dead. it means to become born again from above. Something that happens once and for all, only one time in a person's life. I don't accept this idea of "I shall be saved, as I am being saved." Nope. If one is born from above, they KNOW it. They (me and others here) never say I shall be saved. They say I AM saved, now, and forever.
I would say if one doesn't know if they have been born from above, it's a pretty good indication they haven't been. If one hasn't been born from above, they ought to live in shrinking fear, as the Lake of fire awaits them. Come on AF, we are not discussing brain surgery here, and I don't want to know the meaning of the word "is."

[Elsie]

Still leaning on good, ol' James for your chosen religion's insistence to follow what IT teaches; I see.

---

Eusebius. By the early third century only a handful of books that we now call our New Testament were in question. In western regions of the empire, the book of Hebrews faced opposition, and in the east Revelation was unpopular. Eusebius, a church historian of the fourth century, records that James, 2 Peter, 2-3 John and Jude were the only books “spoken against” (though recognized by others).

http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/who-decided-what-went-into-the-bible.html

 

---

 

Some History of the Canon                   

• The Muratorian, in 190 AD or later, provides us with the earliest accepted list of New Testament canonical books, and it disputes seven of the ones in our Bible today: Hebrews, James, 2nd Peter, 2nd John, 3rd John, Jude, & Revelation. It also included five books that are not in our Bible: Ignatius of Antioch, 1st Clement, Shepherd of Hermas, the Epistle of Barnabas, and the Didache.
  
  

By the 3rd century, Irenaeus and Tertullian had confirmed that only 20 of our 27 books were accepted as scripture: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Paul's thirteen Letters, 1st Peter, and 1st John. Thus, 20 of the present 27 books were canonical within about 150 years of Jesus' death and resurrection. The main arguments against the seven that were eventually included were as follows: 

• Hebrews - The author was unknown. Some believed that the author was Paul, but it differed from Paul in both style and vocabulary.
  
  
• James - It was addressed to the Jewish people, rather than to the Church. Also, the author, James, was not an apostle. An apostle was considered to be either one of the twelve disciples who served with Jesus in His earthly ministry, or someone to whom the resurrect Christ has appeared, such as Paul. Instead, James simply introduces himself as “a servant of Christ".
  
  
• 2 Peter - It differed from 1st Peter in both style and vocabulary.
  
  
• 2 and 3 John - The author refers to himself as a "presbyter" or "elder", and not an apostle.
•  
•  
•  
• http://www.christiandataresources.com/jamescanon.htm
  

 

[Elsie]

Mr. Bergoglio is a mere apostate

Your continuing assertion of this 'fact' has convinced me.

An apostate is running your church.

If YOU aren't gonna do anything about it; why are you wasting your time here?

---

I'm just SURE that the guys who voted FOR Francis to be the pope disagree with your judgement a wee bit.

[Repent and Believe]

I’m sorry if our tinyness offends you.

I guess it does seem a little peculiar driving past all those nice Protestant and formerly Catholic churches with their nice furnishings and nice people with their fun activities and warm cozy bible studies and youth activities and field trips and bingos and pot luck dinners and friendships and smart pastors.

But on the other hand it is comforting to know that our tiny cult is doing all it can to reunite with and strengthen the church as it was before it was attacked by the thousands of apostates from the end of the 50’s to the present day. We thus if properly united are a part of the ONLY church on earth, that which goes from today all the way back to its beginning on the day of Pentecost in the room with Mary and the twelve and including the thousands of proclaimed saints such as Bernard, Francis, Athanasius, Ignatius of Antioch, Therese of Avila and on and on.

We could use some more brethren so daniel1212 I would like to invite you to join us. We could use some more studious folk like you to dig into history and connect the dots.

You just have to consider that your idea of authority and structure may have some problems with it and that the church as the Holy Ghost has protected and guided it throughout history to this day is different than what you thought it was.

I’m glad you are so fascinated by our tiny cult! Send mail when you’re ready.

[Elsie]

But we do not place our trust in our own obedience.

Catholicism has a fix for this!

Just go into the booth whenever you feel like you've not been obedient enough.

The guy inside with you will give you a good talking to; assign you some ritualistic chores to perform; and send you on your way; secure in the belief that Rome has the right methods in place.

[Repent and Believe]

the guys who voted FOR Francis to be the pope disagree with your judgement
__________-________

Yup, they are apostates too.

[Elsie]

Then do you disparage Jesus’ words...

Can't have any of THAT going on!!

---

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 

---

Jesus also added: "Oh; before I forget; James will be filling in a bit more; later on in the book that some folks in Rome are going to assemble; a few centuries from now."

 

[Elsie]

Then do you disparage Jesus’ words...

Thanks; R&B; for allowing me to SHOW (from the bible Rome assembled) the 'work' needed for the faith to LIVE that James spoke of!

[Elsie]

Or does being the first dragon of color (blue) make this one trustworthy with the handling of Christian doctrine?

Yes!

Does being the FR person known as R&B make this one trustworthy with the handling of Catholic doctrine?

[Elsie]

Welcome to the weekly wrestling with ‘invincible ignorance’ episode.

Hey!!