Posted on 12/03/2016 9:15:33 AM PST by marshmallow
An astonishing discovery has been made during repair work to the Edicule -- the ancient chamber housing Jesus' tomb in Jerusalem's Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Scientists have reported extraordinary phemonena that may support the authenticity of the Holy Shroud of Turin.
On October 26, 27 and 28, 2016 a group of scientists and religious authorities oversaw the removal of the marble slab that covers the tomb of Christ. Marie-Armelle Beaulieu, editor-in-chief of Terre Sainte Magazine, reports that some of the measuring instruments used by scientists were altered by electromagnetic disturbances when they were placed directly on the stone in which Christ’s body rested. The scientists reports that their measuring devices either malfunctioned or ceased to work at all. Aleteia reports:
The phenomenon was confirmed by one of the scientists authorized to access the tomb. Later, one of the heads of the building and construction team, Antonia Moropoulou, indicated that it is really hard to imagine that someone would be willing to put in danger his or her reputation just because of a “publicity stunt.” Moreover, the journalist testifies to the scientists’ surprise during the opening of the slab: they hoped that the grave would be much lower than it was. Their conclusion: previously performed analyses with the instruments seemed to have been distorted by an electromagnetic disturbance.
The observation of unusual electromagnetic disturbances at the tomb of Our Lord may support a scientific hypothesis proposed to explain the creation of the mysterious image on the Holy Shroud of Turin. After five years of study and experiments scientists at Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development [ENEA] concluded that the Shroud of Turin cannot be a 'medieval fake'.
I remember reading something long ago, can’t remember where, or when (or the source), about some scientists/students building an exact replica of the Ark of the Covenant, to the original biblical specifications.
They said they had to dismantle it because it started to build up a dangerous charge.
Don’t know if it was BS, Then or now. But I do remember eating it.
Bah! Eating=reading!
Darn autocorrect.
Which means that we should hold off in giving it either full credence, or outright rejection, right?
The correct term for this type of report is "anecdotal" evidence.
Yes, this has been covered by other Freepers.
Apologies to them for dragging them into this dispute once more.
Your straw men detract from your credit as a Freeper and as an intelligent observer.
The 1988 Carbon Dating has been invalidating due to breaking of the of the agreed protocols, which resulted in the sample being taken from an area of the Shroud that had been repaired with a 16th Century dyed cotton fiber patch. This repair, which was done using a French Invisible Reweaving technique, resulted in interweaving original Shroud 1st Century Linen Flax fiber threads with 16th Century dyed Cotton in percentages that varied between 40% to 60% to 60% to 40% depending on the distance from the edge selvage. This resulted in tested date variations that exactly corresponded to the percentage of newer material contaminating the original older Linen.
When asked what age the original flax would have had to have been if mixed with 16th Century Cotton in those percentages to return ages as reported averaging approximately ~1350AD, Dr. Harry Gove, the phycisist who invented the C14 dating technique used in the Shroud tests, did some calculations and replied "First Century, give or take 100 years."
The remaining unborn piece of the original sample taken from the Shroud has been looked at by three different scientists and all of them have found the dyed Cotton threads that do not exist anywhere else on the Shroud of Turin, which is composed 100% of undyed Flax Linen. One side of the sample is pure cotton, and the other side is the pure Linen, and the interfacing area is skillfully interwoven with the threads themselves twined together invisibly. One dead giveaway is the Linen is a "Z" twist while the Cotton is an opposite "S" twist, showing it was spun using a different technique than the original material, as well as having a different biological, as well as chemical makeup. It also shows an aluminum based Alum content and an alizarin dye to match the color of the Linen which is not present on the main body of the Shroud.
Ergo, the three C14 testing labs accurately tested a mixture of old and newer material to come up with an entirely spurious date that resulted in the average dating of the levels of the two differing amounts of C14 left in each from when the different plants were harvested, one, the Flax, in the first century, and the second, the Cotton, in the 16th century, which, when averaged returned a spurious date of the 14th century because the later Cotton would have much more C14 still left than the older Linen would.
Romans 1:20 New International Version (NIV)
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
OMG....obviously you are Protestants!!! The SHROUD is REAL!! Deal with it!!!
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Thanks for the ping
The actual Greek word used is better translated into English as "about" the Face. It was common Hebrew custom, as recounted in the Mishnah to bind the jaw closed with a rope or twisted cloth, by passing the binding under the jaw, up and over the crown of the head, passing it in front of the ears, i.e. not "wrapped" but placed "about," or "around" the face, leaving the face visible, especially when a full body shroud was used.
Also the Biblical verse does not imply that the face cloth was deliberately folded, but rather that it was still wrapped or "twisted and made into a binding as it would have been had it been merely pulled off from around or about Jesus' face to bind His jaw shut and then dropped as Jesus left the tomb.
The Saudurion (literally "Sweat Cloth) still exists and is kept in a Cathedral in Oviedo Spain. The Saudurion shows signs of having cover the same face as the Shroud of Turin (more than 75 points of congruence), has the same blood type in the stains with quite a few matching patterns, and also shows signs of having been twisted (rolled) into a kerchief type binding diagonally. The Sudarium appears to have been placed on the head of a man while he was still suspended on a cross, then also used to cover the head while he was being carried (there is a bloody hand print/face print) showing he was carried face down, perhaps on the way to the tomb. It apparently then was rolled into use as the head binding to keep the jaw closed in death.
We know that full body shrouds were used in Jewish burials because at remnants of least one has been found in a 1st Century Jewish Cemetary still covering a body that was not later placed in the central ossuary due to an earthquake collapsing the tomb around it, preserving the body and burial clothes in situ.
Other such twisted cloth or rope bindings were traditionally used to bind the legs and arms together to prevent them from flopping when rigor mortis passed. This is well documented.
Similarly, potsherds or coins have been found in the eye sockets of skulls in Jewish cemeteries. These items were used to keep the eyes closed in death, and fell into the sockets when the flesh rotted away.
I totally agree it was a patched area. . . However, it was not patched due to the fire. The area that was sampled was patched due to fraying from being the corner that was most frequently handled when placed on display. . . And being the lower corner where visitors could touch the Shroud when it was hung vertically. The constant display horizontally, and then the touching when hung vertically caused wear and tear on that particular corner which badly frayed it. The repair was to replace the frayed area. The burns were on the folded corners when the molten silver from the reliquary box dripped through. Those repairs were sewn in, not re-woven.
I have to disagree about "perfect detail" since it doesn't match perfectly. The Sudarium does not have an image on it but the blood stains on both the Shroud and the Sudarium do match as to locations and size. There are more than 75 points of congruity between the two cloths and these are more than enough to show a relationship. Fingerprinting require only 8 points of congruity (although their detail is better) for identification. There is enough on the Sudarium to indicate these two cloths were in contact with the same body during the same event.
Thanks for the clarification! :)
Oh and I would like to be added to the ping list please.
The real "Glee" the people in charge of the test showed when they made their announcement of the results may tell you something of the motive of why they threw out the original protocols which required eight samples from eight different places on the shroud and a minimum of six different labs, and instead decided to go with ONE sample taken from the place the original scientist who examined the Shroud in 1978 all agreed should be avoided because it was visibly and chemically DIFFERENT from the rest of the main body of the Shroud! They WANTED it to fail the C14 tests.
They not only did that, but the Arizona lab impermissibly averaged their two different tests in their initial report, even though their results, 1240AD, and 1390AD, both with degrees of confidence of plus of minus 25 years—of two different samples supposedly taken from the SAME SAMPLE—DID NOT OVERLAP by 100 years should have been a RED FLAG that something was seriously wrong with the sample!
Then the controlling lab in Oxford impermissibly averaged all four sub-samples from all three labs to get their date of AD1350 and did not point out that not a single sub-sample overlapped any other sub-sample's degree of confidence, NOT ONE!
HUGE RED FLAGS ALL OVER THE PLACE!
The statistical probability of that happening if the sample is homogenous is ZERO! Ergo, the sample was contaminated. To different statisticians submitted peer-reviewed papers claiming the C14 test invalid just on that basis alone. It could not pass the mathematical sample testing!
Thanks for this post. My theory is that many people don’t need “signs” to believe, but God, in His wisdom, did leave “signs” so those who are helped and comforted by them would have them. This is why Jesus worked His “signs” also. He could have just told people to believe because “I said so” but He didn’t. He worked miracles because He understood human nature and understood there were many paths to faith.
No path is better than another... as long as you get there! A simple child may see a sign and love Christ more completely and purely than an adult who studies the Bible night and day. I thank God for giving us signs, miracles, sacraments, saints, Scripture, and anything else that brings people to Him.
No, it is impossible for that to have skewed the date enough. For that 14th Century fire to have skewed the date to a 14th Century date, the amount of 14th Century carbon added would be almost 100% of the carbon 14 in the Shroud. That would make the Shroud black with soot. IT is not present. We KNOW what skewed the date. They tested a 16th Century patch, mixed with 1st Century original material. The combined melange of materials resulted in a spurious 14th century dating.
Similarly, the bacterial pooping theory fails for the same reasons plus the fact that if the bacteria were eating the material of the Shroud, the carbon they ate and then pooped, would contain the C14 extant in the Shroud, not new C14. . . And would not skew it at all. Only new growth plants can fix atmospheric C14.
No, it accounts for approximately 2/3rds of the Patibulum, i.e. Just the cross piece of the Cross and not the Stipes.
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