Posted on 07/23/2016 9:19:23 AM PDT by Salvation
Eucharist in the creed?
Msgr. Charles Pope
Question: The true presence of Christ in the Eucharist is central to our Catholic faith, and many converts say it was essential to their conversion. If this is so, why is the true presence not mentioned at all in the Nicene or Apostles Creeds? Should it not be added at the end where we state things like our belief in the Communion of Saints, the resurrection of the body and so forth? — Jerry Roventini, via email
Answer: There are many things that are not mentioned in the Nicene Creed. There is no mention of the Ten Commandments or grace; neither are we told what books belong to the New Testament or that we should care for the poor, etc. The creed is not a catechism; it is a statement of certain key doctrines that were disputed at the time of its composition in the fourth century.
The creed was composed in response to debates about the divinity of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. While there are a few concluding statements related to ecclesiology and eschatology, the Nicene Creed remains preeminently a statement of faith in the one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The belief in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist was not widely disputed at the time. And to the degree it was, the need to definitively teach on the divinity of Christ was an important foundation in order to establish his true presence in the Eucharist.
In the Sacred Liturgy, many signs and words indicate the Real Presence. The words of the consecration, which are Jesus’ own words, say, “This is my body … my blood.” The priest later says, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” There are also signs of the Real Presence in our reverence of kneeling and genuflecting. And, as Communion is distributed, there is the simple creedal declaration and response: “The body of Christ. Amen.” Therefore, in the wider liturgy of the Mass and devotions such as adoration, the Church proclaims her belief in the True Presence.
While it would not intrinsically hurt to add to the Nicene Creed, one might wonder where it would stop. Further, since the creed is shared by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, adding to the ancient creed might harm attempts at unity.
Pope Paul VI wrote a longer “Credo of the People of God” which does speak to the Eucharistic presence, but it is too long to recite at Mass.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Hebrews 2:1-6 King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
"And one cried unto another, and said,
Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts:
the whole earth is full of his glory.
And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I,
Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
(Isaiah 6:3-5).
Who will go?
Here am I Lord, send me to preach to those in bondage in false religions. We won't mention which false religions, but the guilty parties know who they are. 😀
We are with you, Brother. We are all taking the insults and barbs tossed by the evil one through those who are perishing. GOD’s Love compels us ...
Affirmarive sir. If we didn't care about people, we would just let the false religionists continue in their sins. I wonder how many are just scared to leave their false religions. They seem to hold onto their false religions with a death grip.
I wasn't quite like that, when I was in a cult. 😀
You didn’t deny the proof, so you figured you would try and redirect, it didn’t work. Proof that your tradition is only as far as “you” have seen.
I don’t think that you really missed the point, but just in case it was about them all agreeing not about the act itself.
Dear FRiends,
I love participating in the FReepathons, but I am beginning to wonder about you.
Where are you?
I see so many of you posting here, but where is your support?
Why aren't you bumping this thread?
Where will you be if this site can't survive?
Please take just a few moments to bump this thread. Help us keep this site alive.
Donate today.
Thank you.
Of coarse you disagree, Catholicism has only been around for 2,016 years while the Navigators Have been here for about 80 years trying to straighten things out.....sigh.....
Don't you remember Catechism 101 where you were taught that the Eucharist was the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus UNDER THE APPEARANCE OF BREAD AND WINE??????
Of course it looks like and tastes like bread and wine.....but it is exactly what Christ said it was.....you know it, but you are still trying your best to justify an extraordinarily poor decision on your part.....won't work!
Probably those Christian denominations founded after about 1600?????
I don't care if it's been around 40,000 years, but I do agree with you, in that the RCC has made such a mess of things, that it will take the Navigators, and other true believers, a lot more than 80 years to straighten out the mess.
Don't you remember Catechism 101 where you were taught that the Eucharist was the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus UNDER THE APPEARANCE OF BREAD AND WINE??????
I vaguely remember something like that, but I really didn't pay any attention. I was only interested in going out and playing hockey after class. I didn't really want to be there anyway. I didn't believe it then, I don't believe it now.
Of course it looks like and tastes like bread and wine.....but it is exactly what Christ said it was.....you know it, but you are still trying your best to justify an extraordinarily poor decision on your part.....won't work!
It already works. I don't have to bluff my way into Heaven, like other people. I won't mention any names, but the guilty parties know who they are. I'll tell you what won't work, is false religionists going about trying to establish their own righteousness. That's what won't work. I won't mention which false religionists, but the guilty parties know who they are.
Besides bro, you told me yourself, that the sacraments are not necessary. I agree with that, so I don't do them. If you do, that's on you.
Another one is the one which has tried to claim it supercedes and replaces the Jewish religion, through its two-class clergy/laity system and daily sacrifices to be eaten to absorb the virtues of its sacrificed object, having also left its first desie, and now focusing on victimizing its devotees.
No form of denominationalism conforms to the true nascent NT model. But there is a miniscule remnant, as always, whom God has preserved.
You wouldn't want to mention any name of a particular denomination, would you bro? 😀
It has its own broadcasting system . . .
I think I know who you are talking about, bro, but I think I will not say. Besides, the guilty parties know who they are. 😀😆😄
I posted truth and mind reading is forbidden.
Did you stamp your widdle foot, too?
The Bible warns us over the manner of our partaking of bread and cup for if we do so in an unworthy or careless manner, we become guilty of the blood and body of Christ. I am not so caught up into arguments over substance or change of substance, presence of Christ, ect; I think those are distractor arguments best left to conscience as the Lord may instruct the individual.
The black and white scripture says that when ever we should partake that we do so, in Remembrance of Christ, having examined ourselves, (resumably to ask forgiveness and then to ask for help in the repentance of such sin), and only then may we partake in a worthy manner. The black and white scripture texts say nothing one way or the other of what happens to the physical substance of the bread and cup when partaking of it but it does say what happens when you take it while being in a dark place spiritually! There is most certainly the Holy Spirit’s presence in the ceremony itself as the scripture itself infers, so whether Protestant, Orthodox, or Catholic, be humble and tread lightly when partaking of bread and cup!
What goes into mouth goes out thru the digestive organs as Christ says....the real transaction that takes place is spiritual! The Spirit renews us daily in our Inner Man anyway, even if we don’t take the Lord’s supper on that particular day!
Reference: 1Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.