Posted on 07/23/2016 9:19:23 AM PDT by Salvation
Eucharist in the creed?
Msgr. Charles Pope
Question: The true presence of Christ in the Eucharist is central to our Catholic faith, and many converts say it was essential to their conversion. If this is so, why is the true presence not mentioned at all in the Nicene or Apostles Creeds? Should it not be added at the end where we state things like our belief in the Communion of Saints, the resurrection of the body and so forth? — Jerry Roventini, via email
Answer: There are many things that are not mentioned in the Nicene Creed. There is no mention of the Ten Commandments or grace; neither are we told what books belong to the New Testament or that we should care for the poor, etc. The creed is not a catechism; it is a statement of certain key doctrines that were disputed at the time of its composition in the fourth century.
The creed was composed in response to debates about the divinity of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. While there are a few concluding statements related to ecclesiology and eschatology, the Nicene Creed remains preeminently a statement of faith in the one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The belief in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist was not widely disputed at the time. And to the degree it was, the need to definitively teach on the divinity of Christ was an important foundation in order to establish his true presence in the Eucharist.
In the Sacred Liturgy, many signs and words indicate the Real Presence. The words of the consecration, which are Jesus’ own words, say, “This is my body … my blood.” The priest later says, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” There are also signs of the Real Presence in our reverence of kneeling and genuflecting. And, as Communion is distributed, there is the simple creedal declaration and response: “The body of Christ. Amen.” Therefore, in the wider liturgy of the Mass and devotions such as adoration, the Church proclaims her belief in the True Presence.
While it would not intrinsically hurt to add to the Nicene Creed, one might wonder where it would stop. Further, since the creed is shared by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, adding to the ancient creed might harm attempts at unity.
Pope Paul VI wrote a longer “Credo of the People of God” which does speak to the Eucharistic presence, but it is too long to recite at Mass.
Live source, please. Always a live source is needed.
Whether you are practicing Lutheranism or Methodism or Presbyterianism or Catholiciism, ONLY the Presence of God's Spirit in your human spirit will connect, will ‘hear’ the shout and be transformed instantly.
You as a human creature descended from Adam cannot strive your way into having His Spirit in your spirit. GOD puts the spark of HIS Holy Spirit in you when you confess Jesus, because that is HIS Glory due only to His Grace in Christ on your behalf.
Those folks converted in Acts on the Day of Pentecost didn't have rosaries or brown scapulae or confessionals or Catholic Wheat wafers ‘magically’ transformed in the body and blood of Jesus or purchased indulgences, or ... well, you should get the gist. They had faith when convicted of their fallen state. They didn't argue with God's Spirit citing there fidelity to ‘their church’, they had faith and believed and were made new creatures immediately by the sudden Presence of GOD’s Spirit in their until that moment dead human spirit.
Your dancing proclamation of ‘your church’ is superfluous to salvation.
The excerpt I cites references multiple scripture verses.
Much of the division amongst Christian is due to how we understand scripture. Like many Christians today, I simply do not believe the Roman Catholic interpretation of scripture as it pertains to sacraments, priests, relics and many other things. Again, I understand that Roman Catholic theologians will look at the "Bread of Life" references in John 6 and say, "see, Jesus is talking about the Eucharist". Christians like myself do not agree with that interpretation.
"Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this (eating his flesh and blood), Jesus said to them, “Does this (eating his flesh and blood) offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE, THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING. THE WORDS THAT I HAVE SPOKE TO YOU - THEY ARE FULL OF THE SPIRIT AND LIFE. The Roman Catholic church would disagree but a number of early Church Fathers who did not believe in the "real presence" as it's taught by the Roman Catholic church today. re: https://onefold.wordpress.com/early-church-evidence-refutes-real-presence/
If you agree with Roman Catholic theology regarding the Eucharist then you believe you are eating the physical body and blood of Jesus, which makes you at the least, a spiritual cannibal.
I am a Christian saved by grace and filled with the Holy Spirit. My faith is not in an organization or the Commandments or satisfying a punch list of Sacraments. I see no grace or salvation in THINGS, or ORDINANCES or RITUALS!
It is on Christ the solid ROCK I stand (not Peter); all other ground is sinking sand.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
My desire is to know Christ and be conformed to His image. My desire is not to be conformed to the Roman Catholic church.
Obviously they probably don't believe in Apostolic Tradition.
It's so ODD that people sometimes are SO critical of something they know SO little about.
I don't think that I've ever criticized a Protestant denomination, ANY of the 30-40,000 of them that have come and/or gone. I sometimes wonder why Catholicism, the original Christian faith begun by Jesus Christ, is such a target to some people.
Have YOU any answers about that?
Nevertheless, it is a rule on all forums that a live source be given to that the moderators can check for accuracy.
JESUS, GOD with us, did not institute catholiciism. To believe that LIE requires magic thinking, projecting imaginary things and meanings in pagan fashion, like the idea that you can get GOD LIFE in you via the alimentary tract. The body Jesus NOW occupies does not have blood distributing the LIFE through out the tissues.
Sure they did, in fact they were all involved in the first one and Christ was their Priest.
“There was no controversy about the Eucharist when the Nicene Creed was written in the fourth century!
True. Despite never being practiced by Apostles
If the Apostles never practiced by the Celebration of the Eucharist, where did the churches come up with the idea?
There were over 200 representatives at the Council. They represented churches from throughout the Christian world. The Eastern bishops formed the great majority of representatives. These included, among others; Alexander of Alexandria, Eustathius of Antioch, Macarius of Jerusalem, Paphnutius of Thebes, Potamon of Heraclea, Paul of Neocaesarea, Eusebius of Nicomedia, Eusebius of Caesarea, Aristakes of Armenia, Leontius of Caesarea, Jacob of Nisibis, Hypatius of Gangra, Protogenes of Sardica, Melitius of Sebastopolis, Achilleus of Larissa, and Spyridion of Trimythous. The Latin-speaking provinces sent at least five representatives: Marcus of Calabria from Italia, Cecilian of Carthage from Africa, Hosius of Córdoba from Hispania, Nicasius of Die from Gaul, and Domnus of Stridon from the province of the Danube.
There is no record that there was any disagreement among these churches on the Eucharist. Is it plausible that all of these churches would separately come up with the same false teaching? Or is it more likely that this teaching was passed on from Jesus through the Apostles by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?
**Every one is indwelt by the Holy Spirit as a pledge of the rest of his inheritance at the moment of salvation.**
In Acts chapter 8, Philip baptized the Samaritans, but they didn’t receive the Holy Ghost until a couple days later. (assuming a messenger took a day to get to Jerusalem, and a day for Peter and John to come down.)
The Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation are not usually given at the same time.
But it is getting more common that babies also receive the Sacrament of Confirmation in addition to the Sacrament of Baptism.
Extra graces are always welcome!
**Every believer who has entrusted himself to Christ alone for salvation, is part of that eternal church.**
Do you agree that his words (commands) need to be trusted (obeyed) as well?
“Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” Jn 20:23
Syncretic paganism began creeping into the church soon after the Apostles. It has continued to this day. By the Nivea council, much error was present that was not biblical.
**Nivea council**
No such council.
“Do you agree that his words (commands) need to be trusted (obeyed) as well?”
Those who receive the life of Christ will produce fruit. Paul also writes that it is possible for a true believer to live a carnal life. If so, he will be saved, but with no rewards.
It was a slippery slope....
“Obviously they probably don’t believe in Apostolic Tradition.”
Which apostolic tradition are you referring to the 4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 19, or 20th?
No, I can’t believe in a tradition that happened in the 1st century and then has had major changes every since. That’s not tradition that’s making it up as you go.
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-—————————……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………-————…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, “Mother of God” applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .-———————————————————— 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… …..1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… .. 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion …………………..1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma……………………………..1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………————————… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………——————……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-—————————————————……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D.
Tradition, singular. You have a list there of dates when certain dogma, doctrine or praxis was defined or declared. That is the end-result of Tradition, not the starting point. You are confusing the secular use of the word (the “tradition” of decorating Christmas trees, for example) with the uniquely Christian understanding of revealed truth.
The Bible has nothing to do with it.
The folks in the House of Cornelius, have you read about them? I’m curious what you cite to explain their receiving the Holy Spirit even before Peter finished his sermon and before any were baptized.
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