An excellent book.
Posted on 07/23/2016 9:19:23 AM PDT by Salvation
Eucharist in the creed?
Msgr. Charles Pope
Question: The true presence of Christ in the Eucharist is central to our Catholic faith, and many converts say it was essential to their conversion. If this is so, why is the true presence not mentioned at all in the Nicene or Apostles Creeds? Should it not be added at the end where we state things like our belief in the Communion of Saints, the resurrection of the body and so forth? — Jerry Roventini, via email
Answer: There are many things that are not mentioned in the Nicene Creed. There is no mention of the Ten Commandments or grace; neither are we told what books belong to the New Testament or that we should care for the poor, etc. The creed is not a catechism; it is a statement of certain key doctrines that were disputed at the time of its composition in the fourth century.
The creed was composed in response to debates about the divinity of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. While there are a few concluding statements related to ecclesiology and eschatology, the Nicene Creed remains preeminently a statement of faith in the one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The belief in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist was not widely disputed at the time. And to the degree it was, the need to definitively teach on the divinity of Christ was an important foundation in order to establish his true presence in the Eucharist.
In the Sacred Liturgy, many signs and words indicate the Real Presence. The words of the consecration, which are Jesus’ own words, say, “This is my body … my blood.” The priest later says, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.” There are also signs of the Real Presence in our reverence of kneeling and genuflecting. And, as Communion is distributed, there is the simple creedal declaration and response: “The body of Christ. Amen.” Therefore, in the wider liturgy of the Mass and devotions such as adoration, the Church proclaims her belief in the True Presence.
While it would not intrinsically hurt to add to the Nicene Creed, one might wonder where it would stop. Further, since the creed is shared by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, adding to the ancient creed might harm attempts at unity.
Pope Paul VI wrote a longer “Credo of the People of God” which does speak to the Eucharistic presence, but it is too long to recite at Mass.
Hey, not everything is digital.
An excellent book.
Yes!
Check it out. It gives actual IN CONTEXT and more complete citations of early church leaders like Clement, Tertullian, Ignatius and Justin Martyr instead of the cherry picked partial quotes Catholics like to use in their books and apologetics.
https://onefold.wordpress.com/early-church-evidence-refutes-real-presence/
Good link... with more than 9,000 comments!
The creature body that Jesus took tot he cross had the life of it carried by the blood He shed for our redemption.
The resurrected body JESUS now occupies no longer has blood carrying the creature life in it. GOD has another way of distributing The Life of the glorified ones throughout their real physical bodies, so the Jesus who catholiciism claims their priests bring down to their altars would not be a body possessing blood for them to consume! There is no continuing sacrifice of Jesus's body and blood because it is no longer a creature body He occupies.
There is no real presence of the Lord Christ in the lie that is the Catholic Mass. BUT Jesus himself told us that where two or more belivers / faithers in Him are gathered in His name, He is there in the midst of them. He is not there to be continually sacrificed in creature body. He is there in a spacetime reality we are not yet equipped to sense. But He is there ... The Lord Christ does not err and He keeps His Promises.
“The true presence of Christ” is in some flour and water, baked at 350 degrees for 30 minutes. Gotcha.
The Messiah is not in a loaf of bread. Come one, Salvation. He’s alive and well ... and not present in bread.
Please look into the definition of transubstantiation. And remember, that with God, this is possible.
Why not believe?
It was meant to confirm Jesus' own statement that where two or more were gathered together in His name He would be present with them. There was also the issue of arguing against the Gnostics/Docetists who denied Jesus HAD a flesh and blood body. The RCs seem to always leave that out of their discussion and I think the context of why terms were used is important.
One last thing is that these repetitive threads - meant, I think, to propose ONLY the Catholics have it "right" about this subject - seem to leave out the fact that there is no evidence for centuries that the Lord's Supper ordinance was seen as an "offering/sacrifice" or was meant to be for the expiation of sins with consumption being necessary for salvation. When Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. (John 6:52), it was AFTER he had told them:
It has ALWAYS been about faith, believing in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us in saving us from our sins and enabling us to be in heaven with Him. Eating the bread and drinking the wine of the observance of the Lord's Supper is a testimony to the faith we already have and to remind us always of His sacrifice for us. Catholics sure don't have the copyright on that!
The CATHOLIC CHURCH. And CATHOLICS who believe that they have to eat the body and blood of Jesus.
So why, then, does the church ignore the instruction of the HOLY SPIRIT as given at the Council at Jerusalem and teach the eating of blood, which HE forbade?
Jesus said the SPIRIT gives life and taht the words He taught were SPIRIT and life.
Jesus well knew the prohibition against eating blood. There's no way He would have, or COULD HAVE, taught to violate the very Law He handed down at Mt. Sinai and told people to eat blood.
Amen!
Because of this:
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Because Jesus came to FULFILL the Law, not to break it.
Because the *all things are possible with God* is a false premise. There are things God CANNOT do. He cannot lie, He cannot change, He cannot deny Himself.
The Law is a reflection of His holy nature. He cannot change it without denying Himself.
Believing that the bread and wine become real flesh and blood forces the partakers to violate God's clear and unequivocal commands in Scripture.
Believing that the bread and wine are symbolic representations violates none of Scripture.
Physical activity does not force spiritual reality to happen. Going through physical ritual and religious observances does NOT give a person spiritual life.
Correct. He cannot sin. He cannot tempt anyone to sin. He cannot create something that He cannot control. He cannot violate rules and principles He has established. In other words, He will not come out suddenly and say 2 + 2 = 3, or make a square circle.
So, you are right, not all things are possible with God.
More people should read those!
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