Posted on 07/07/2016 6:50:38 AM PDT by Salvation
There is a tendency for us to simplistically dismiss the gods of the ancient world as mere figments of human imagination, but the biblical approach is a bit more complex than that.
To be clear, at no time in the Scriptures were these gods ever acknowledged to be gods in any true sense of the word. There is only one God and He is the LORD.
Consider the following text by St. Paul:
For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist (1 Cor 8:5-6).
It is a bit unclear whether St. Paul is affirming the existence of these gods or simply prescinding from a debate about that topic. For example, if I were to say to you, “Look, even if you may be right about that particular detail, it still doesn’t change the final answer,” I am not necessarily affirming that you are right about that detail, I am saying that I don’t really want to discuss that point, but rather, move on to the more fundamental point and conclusion.
So St. Paul may not necessarily be affirming that these gods actually exist, but neither is he outright denying that some beings exist that the pagans wrongly call gods.
In the Old Testament a similar stance is evident. There are repeated references to the gods of the pagans or Gentiles. The gods are not usually declared to be nonexistent, but rather it is said that if they do exist they are of no avail and far inferior to the one, true God of Israel: the LORD. There is even a passage in the Book of Psalms that seems to presuppose God in the midst of these gods:
God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? … I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince” (Ps 82 1-2; 5-6).
It is a complex passage. The context seems to be God rebuking princes and leaders of the people. But then why are they called gods? And why are they told that they will fall like princes?
The Scriptures do not tend to deny that entities called gods may in fact exist among the pagans. Hence they may not merely be figments of imagination. Yet if they do exist, they are powerless before the True God of Israel and none of them is a true god in any proper sense of the word. They are called gods but are not.
But if they do exist, what could they be? The frequent biblical answer is that they are demons posing as gods, deceiving the nations. Consider some of the following texts:
They did not destroy the peoples, as the Lord commanded them, but they mixed with the nations and learned to do as they did. They served their idols, which became a snare to them. They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons; they poured out innocent blood (Psalm 106:34-38).
Note here that many of the psalms are written in a poetic manner. But here the poetic structure is based on the correspondence of the thoughts, not the similarity of the sounds. Thus the parallel in this psalm is between “They served their idols” and “They sacrificed their own children to demons.” The gods of the peoples and nations around them are called demons.
They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known (Deut 32:16-17).
The attestation here is pretty straightforward: the strange gods are demons.
For you provoked your Maker with sacrifices to demons and not to God; You forgot the eternal God who nourished you, and you grieved Jerusalem who nurtured you (Baruch 4:7-8).
While in this passage the term “gods” is not used along with the reference to demons, the echo of other texts referring to the idols and gods of the heathen seems clear.
What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he? (1 Cor 10:20-22)
St. Paul says here that the idols and gods of the pagans are no gods at all but are in fact demons. The sacrifices that the pagans think they are directing to their gods are really being directed to demons.
Thus the Biblical approach to the gods of the pagans is not as simple as mere scoffing and consigning them to the realm of fantasy. The reality was often more tragic and harmful than mere fantasy. The Scriptures hold forth the fearsome possibility (and likelihood) that many of these gods were in fact demons in disguise. They were the deceiver, mockingly assuming his place as a god among the deceived nations.
Early Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr and Tertullian held similar views (that the gods were actually demons).
We do well to remember that when people turn away from God today, it is usually not that they believe nothing, but rather they believe in something (in fact, some believe in almost anything). And in turning to their modern idols, they may not merely be embracing an idea, but far worse, a demon. Our task is not just to summon people away from bad ideas, errors, ignorance, or false doctrines. In many cases we must also rescue them from demons.
Beware the doctrines of demons and their very presence. Scripture’s stance on the gods of the nations is not merely to dismiss them as nonexistent. These gods may in fact be pernicious enemies who are very real, who are not fantasy. As it was then, even so today.
Ah, then we are agreed.
:)
Good luck to the sheep and the corpses in this nursing home. Opus me out.
The Acts tell in detail what the apostles did: Keep the Sabbath, and the appointed feasts; tell new believers to study Torah, “every Sabbath day.”
Hmmm.... certainly odd.
No, I’m trying to understand what you’re doing on Free Republic, when it kinda sounds like you should be in a mental institution.
I don’t judge people by what faith they follow until they give a reason. You calling people ‘self righteous’ when you are being self-righteous in your own post is hypocrisy.
Worship how you like. If you are truly ‘fulfilled’ you have no reason to impugn others.
“I’m sure you’d rather I be silent while you pronounce me a devil worshipper but I’m not your obedient sheep.”
No, you’re not the obedient sheep of anyone here. And no one is asking you to be.
“In fact, I’m sure I can tear the wool right off your hide.”
I have no idea whose hide you can tear off, but you come across as a loon in any case.
“The Gods are making me strong, that way.”
Nope. The gods, not the Gods, and not even them. If there’s even one God, then there are no Gods plural. And if there is one God, then your gods aren’t really all that impressive. Your gods, if they exist in any way, bow down to the same God I do.
“Here’s some Italian Viking Metal for ya”
What? Italian Viking metal??? They’re a folk metal band. A “Viking Metal” band would be Amon Amarth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amon_Amarth
You were very nice to him. You tried.
For example, the bloodthirsty entity that was gibbering in Mohammed's ear.
Um, not exactly the demographic cited for: I would actually recommend James over Acts for anyone who has been a Christian for some length of time
As for Keep the Sabbath, and the appointed feasts these are not detailed as essential in Acts. Namely the letter in Acts 15 to gentile believers reads as follows:
The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the believers of Gentile origin in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings.
Since we have heard that certain persons who have gone out from us, though with no instructions from us, have said things to disturb you and have unsettled your minds, we have decided unanimously to choose representatives and send them to you, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.
If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
.
Keeping the feasts and the Sabbath is what every believer in Acts was doing.
It was detailed as essential by Yeshua himself in two chapters in Matthew, and expressly in detail by John in his first epistle, and by Paul in Romans 2.
And Acts tells the story of Christianity being embraced by other than Jews. That's what the whole of that letter is about. — why do you add more than what the Holy Spirit set forth?
It was detailed as essential by Yeshua himself in two chapters in Matthew, and expressly in detail by John in his first epistle, and by Paul in Romans 2.
Mark 2:27,28 Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." I trust the Holy Spirit is in agreement with the Lord of the Sabbath in this matter, and seeing as how they said For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication they would have included the Sabbath as essential if it were.
Earlier in Acts chapter 15 it details how the matter got brought up to the council:
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.”The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter.
After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
The whole assembly kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul as they told of all the signs and wonders that God had done through them among the Gentiles.
The key point in Acts 15 was that the new believers could not learn Torah in a weekend.
For that reason they stated the minimum needed to keep out of trouble, since they were expected to be hearing Moses read every Sabbath day, where they would come up to speed in much the same way that the House of Judah had in their youth.
Grace is the writing of Torah on our hearts, so that the keeping of commandments is our desire (back to Romans 2).
[12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
They did include the Sabbath as essential. Read Acts 15!
[19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
More importantly Yeshua called Torah as a whole essential for all, until the Earth and Heavens pass away (Mat 5)
[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
You are ignoring the salient conclusion Peter gave:
Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.
> The key point in Acts 15 was that the new believers could not learn Torah in a weekend.
No, it’s not… but that’s not in question here.
> For that reason they stated the minimum needed to keep out of trouble, since they were expected to be hearing Moses read every Sabbath day, where they would come up to speed in much the same way that the House of Judah had in their youth.
Look at what Peter said:
Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?
Look at what the scripture says:
For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: […]
By placing the Torah into the list of necessities you ARE putting God to the test by “placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear.”
Thus you have added.
I’ll speak plainly here: you are acting against God’s Holy Spirit by requiring the Law (Torah; adherence thereunto implied) as a necessity, indeed you are testifying that Jesus’s work on the cross is insufficient and indeed inferior to the Law. But the Law does not save, it can only condemn. It is in the scriptures, plainly:
Galatians 5:4 — “You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Romans 8:3 — “For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,”
Galatians 3:21,22 — “Is the law then opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could make alive, then righteousness would indeed come through the law. But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.”
I see what your problem is now.
You don't understand what the “yoke” Peter was speaking of even is.
Torah is not a yoke, it is our hope and ultimate liberty.
The yoke is what Yeshua spent most of his 70 week ministry dismantling: the Takanot and Ma’assim of the pharisees.
The nonsense that they had spent the entire second temple period attempting to add to Yehova’s word. Every miracle Yeshua performed was done to destroy one of their takanot.
The first one was “the washing of the hands,” where he made wine in their ceremonial washing pots.
Violating Torah is what puts Yehova to the test. The false commandments of the pharisees are all violations of Torah.
Peter warned about those that twist what Paul wrote to the Galatians.
2Peter 3:
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Impressive. Seriously.
Surely not pride? What then?
Hello... Donors?
please be here soon
and click the pic!
Free Republic needs your help
donate today
“And with that, Ketill Frostbeard strutted his way out of Free Republic and into a Zot... “
There was something seriously wrong with that guy.
Probably strutted right over to Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Odin.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
