Posted on 07/05/2016 1:04:18 AM PDT by OrthodoxIndianCatholic
Dear Friends in Jesus and Mary,
The Holy Rosary has a very special place in my "Spiritual Life".
Recitation of the Holy Rosary has helped me to cope with the ups and downs of life.
My Mother used to often tell me, that if you are troubled in any way ---- "Go to Jesus and Mary" by reciting the Holy Rosary. They will never let you down.
When I recite the Holy Rosary, I often think of the unique and special relationship between Jesus Christ and Mother Mary during their life on earth.
I have never stopped reciting the Holy Rosary when I learnt it at the age of 10.
I believe that the Holy Rosary is a Miraculous Prayer in itself and if said with faith and devotion it is a great help on a daily basis.
Here are two beautiful articles on the Holy Rosary.
1) The Seven Dolour Rosary.
http://www.ecatholic2000.com/cts/untitled-632.shtml#_Toc349936297
2) Suggestions on saying the Holy Rosary
http://www.ecatholic2000.com/cts/untitled-469.shtml#_Toc349936134
That's a very limiting approach to learning and trouble shooting and it runs counter to my nature and work experience.
Moreover, your battle runs counter to my understanding of the Christian understanding that I've come to thus far in my seeking and in life in general.
Given all of that, I fear that I would be condemning my self were I to walk that same path as you and act accordingly.
For those reasons, I can't help but worry about you and others who seem to know so much more than I do, yet make what seems to me to be a fundamental error of going to war believer against believer.
I'm in enough foul trouble already and have no interest in any of that. Honestly, I don't see any winner in that war other than Satan.
It's coming from "opposite-land" --where part of what you say, refutes other assertions.
I could explain how that is, break it down step-by-step,but it would tedious, and tend to make the thread be about people rather than about perspectives, and vast arrays of data.
Try discussing the data itself (or not) and not delve into analysis of persons here, including allusions to, and speculations towards their motivations --when they offer, or point towards "arrays of data".
Unless you would care to open this up to each being treated the same, operating under the same rules you do, thus yourself become subject of off-hand commentary regarding your own self and motivations, instead of whatever subject matter was under discussion?
Then again, that would go against the rules of this forum. We can't have that, now can we?
If you're saying that the Protestant vs Catholic thing works for you, then have at it. I'm just saying that I don't get it and that it seems like a very bad idea.
Lowly sinner that I am and never the smartest guy in any room, all I have is my perspective and that's all I'm offering.
As far as the PvC family feud is concerned, I'm saying with me "there's no war here unless you've brought it with you."
I'm just another believer looking for clues, gathering data, pondering His Mysteries, and trying to work through my theories on how all of this data fits together so I can makes sense of it.
For example, Mother Mary is one of those Mysteries, too, and there is quite a lot of Mother Mary data to sort through and account for and understand.
That's where I'm at these days. I prayed for Him to reveal Himself to me and that's what He did, right when I needed Him the most.
And now my life has never been better!
Yet that didn't stop you from in the very next sentence, putting words into my mouth as it were;
>>>> If you're saying that the Protestant vs Catholic thing works for you, then have at it. <<<<
doing so even after you had previously taken a side, so to speak.
>>>> I'm just saying that I don't get it and that it seems like a very bad idea. <<<<
Huh? Take a side, favor a view (as you did, in promoting a view) but when that is challenged it's like doing so is automatically "a very bad idea"?
>>>> Lowly sinner that I am and never the smartest guy in any room, all I have is my perspective and that's all I'm offering. <<<<
Then please leave off inclusion of discussion of poster's motivations, unless your own should also become subject to examination, and discussion.
>>>> As far as the PvC family feud is concerned, I'm saying with me "there's no war here unless you've brought it with you." <<<<
War? I'm not supposed to recognize your own dismissive comments towards daniel1212, all the delving into and alluding to motivation (now extended towards myself also, it seems) is not just some form of low-level, and quietly stealthy forum discussion cunning, which if allowed to go on would leave you free to promote whatever points of view you hold, while characterizing challenges to those views as "bad" and "war"? Sounds and looks like an attempt to enforce one-way practice of double standards, to me.
>>>> For example, Mother Mary is one of those Mysteries, too, and there is quite a lot of Mother Mary data to sort through and account for and understand. <<<<
And where does that "Mother Mary" data come from? Why even capitalize the word "Mother" as a title?
There is One Father in Heaven. The incarnate Christ's own mother (Mary) was an earthly being.
You know, if the Greeks at Council of Ephesus had sought to promote an unreserved notion of Mary as capital "M" Mother of God, they could have very well chosen to coin terminology differing from what was chosen and agreed upon by those who were seeking to stem the perceived error of overemphasizing the human nature of Christ to the detriment of recognition of the Divine nature of Christ.
The word which was invented (Theotokos) translates more literally into English as "God bearer" rather than capitalized title Mother of God (God Mother), though the latter is where men almost immediately began to take it. Bear in mind here that the Greek language did not lack word for "mother". They deliberately avoided going fully "there" with it, in recognition of the aspect of the eternal nature of Christ, sharing as he does that transcendence [3 with the eternal Creator-- in fact, rather himself (Jesus) being that Creator, though it be puzzling to many how the Creator could remain enthroned in the Heavenlies while also taking on the ~quite literal~ form of a man, at the same time. Many stumble at this point, Muslims most acutely one could say, although Jews of old (and still today) pshaw (show contempt) for the concept, despite the remedy being extant among their own religious tradition which would cure the problem -- namely -- that among ancient Hebrew tradition there was long acceptance and promotion even that sons are equivalents to their own rightful fathers, according to flesh, and according to spirit too.
Moving on from that, soon after Council of Ephesus, Marionism developed by leaps and bounds, encompassing expressions in regards to Mary the kind and tone of which had formerly been singled out and identified as theological error.
To put it another way -- in tamping down one perceived error, namely the limiting of Jesus to have had the divine Logos (merely) dwell within himself -rather than Jesus be living personification of that Logos (Word), and in that way be the Immanuel, God with us in person, the correction opened a door for elevation of Mary to (eventually, through doctrinal development) be so nearly on par with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to have become in function (theologically speaking) included as a fourth (though not openly declared thus "counted") member of the Trinity.
>>>> That's where I'm at these days. I prayed for Him to reveal Himself to me and that's what He did, right when I needed Him the most. <<<<
Hey, great. Glad to hear it. What's that got to do with "Mary"?
Dropping links to Marionist devotional material, while simultaneously posturing yourself as being above the fray, ain't gonna' fly.
What else is there; other than tilting at windmills?
Ya gotta get down to a human SOMEWHERE along the line!
Was the cry of the OT when battling against competing ideas.
What is a sword?
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit...
Luke 22:38
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That's enough!"
...battle with ISLAM is not interesting to me and I believe that your perspective closes one off to a vast array of data.
"Believers" are NOT going to win any battles with Islam by using 'data' that Mecca provides; but by using the written Word of GOD.
The 'war' was STARTED by CORRUPTION in the Roman Catholic Church.
Many 'reformers' tried to straighten her out; but none were as effective as Luther.
The 'Counter' Reformation followed in the Catholic church.
WAR! you say?
Sometimes things are caused by what is known as fightin' words!!
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."
--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
Dang!
We didn't think y'all would notice!
--Catholic_wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary!)
Later
And you have only demonstrated the Protestant penchant for hurling nasty contrived accusations when you get backed into a theological corner.
And that's the problem with you people. It's one of the reasons I crossed the Tiber after more than twenty years as a fundamentalist/evangelical. If it's not lying, cheating, or stealing you people don't recognize any of the other cardinal sins, as sin. Protestant Bible thumpers have turned respect for Scripture into the very definition of legalism. It's no wonder many cradle Catholics don't even bother with the Bible.
It is in answer to the assertion that Trinitarian theology requires a systematic study of the Scripture to validate. I don't need to try to make the Bible say things it only alludes to, because I accept Holy Tradition as authoritative along with the Bible.
And I don't need to pull sleazy tricks like conflating the Christian Canon with the Old Testament Scripture when quoting Acts, either.
In other words, you're pulling the definition out of your hat to provide your Pharisaical attacks the patina of legitimacy.
And BTW, redoubling those attacks while repeating your casus belli for those attacks does not change the fact those attacks are rooted in Biblical silence.
I know you know the Catholic justification, but you have chosen to set that aside, ignore the fact that God did not choose to prohibit what you want prohibited, and declare your thesis authoritative in contravention of the Commandment against taking the Name of the Lord in vain.
Good luck with that.
...if you want to believe that inhabiting the plant Kolob is a warranted...
The Mormons came out of YOU, not us.
You will have to be more coherent than that if you want a meaningful exchange.
Let me refer you to your first two paragraphs from the post this one answers.
Fwiw, you lost me early and I got stuck and couldn't get past it.
I'm still trying to figure out how you thought I was putting words in your mouth, along with my "dismissive comments towards daniel1212, all the delving into and alluding to motivation (now extended towards myself also, it seems) is not just some form of low-level, and quietly stealthy forum discussion cunning" and all the rest.
Whatever it is you think I've done, I hope you'll forgive my trespass against you and daniel2112 to whatever extent I merit.
Regardless, if whatever you said works for you, then what more is there for me to say? You're set.
Sorry for my not being able to understand what you tried so hard to tell me.
I've had a few rounds of major head trauma and I wonder about my self sometimes.
No. Actually it shows us that Christ appointed John to take physical and financial care of Mary as He was leaving for a time. Nothing more. Most of us make provisions for our parents/children in the event of our death. Even on the cross Christ was supremely in control and took care of every detail.
All prayer requests are granted. Most not in the way we envision, but God hears all prayer. He answers every one in His timing and perfect wisdom. A lot of times the answer is a resounding NO.
No. Catholics are just bound to the Scriptural pronouncements of fallible humans they blasphemously call the Vicar of Christ, many of whom were overtly evil or questionably even Christian at all....
That is the saddest statement I have heard, but profoundly true. Many catholics don’t bother with the Bible. Why should they listen to God when they can have someone else tell them what the catholics think they should believe? They cut themselves off from Truth and instead accept a hodgepodge of culture/pronouncements and declarations from a corrupt earthly system. What could go wrong?
My best self-diagnosis/SWAG is that I'm "AnthropoGrouchophobic" which is a fear of a group of people who would have me as a member of their group.
Yep, no joining for me!
So you see, I'm just an observer gathering data and I find that there is a very large amount of Mary data in our now and throughout history to account for.
In reading your posts over the years, your truth has you in what seems to me to be a "case-closed" position where you're no longer taking or even considering additional data, especially not the data that is outside of your "case-closed" understanding.
And yet, the data exists and new data is continually being added. Since I'm not a "global warming scientist", I have to take that data and account for it.
My current theory sees the Bible as being kinda like a text book.
And, not unlike how you'll find the basics of physics or chemistry, for example, the formulas and general theories, with lots of real life examples to show the math in a text book, the text book itself is ultimately just the introduction to a much greater world.
In other words, everything in that text book is truth, but not all of the truth is in the text book.
It's "out there" in life and "in here" in our heads and hearts for each of us to discover.
The material from True Life In God is more data to account for and understand. Or not, if that's your truth.
Given my theories about where we are in the story we were born into, the messages in TLIG seem remarkably well-timed, which in and of itself brings more questions, more data and then even more questions...or not.
Nonsense. When three of you pray for Aunt Tillie's healing, and she dies: that's a denial. Period. It also debunks the standard Protestant hermeneutic when applied to John 14:13.
And Catholic hands are clean in this regard? You must be new to these discussions. BTW, I'll give you an example of "the Catholic penchant for hurling nasty contrived accusations." I reprinted your next paragraph in case you forgot:
And that's the problem with you people. It's one of the reasons I crossed the Tiber after more than twenty years as a fundamentalist/evangelical. If it's not lying, cheating, or stealing you people don't recognize any of the other cardinal sins, as sin. Protestant Bible thumpers have turned respect for Scripture into the very definition of legalism. It's no wonder many cradle Catholics don't even bother with the Bible.
The last accusation is better laid at the feet of the Catholic clergy than at the feet of the Protestants.
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