Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-23-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

Msgr. Charles Pope • May 23, 2016 •

Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.

We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.

Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).

Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”

Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”

So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).

St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:

Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio

(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)

The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:

The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.

The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.

The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.

So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.

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[maryz]

Yes -- the same sacrifice, not a "resacrifice." The sacrifice itself is eternal -- the form it took in time was Calvary.

[ealgeone]

Some catholics have called it a re-sacrifice so i use their language. You call it the same sacrifice.

Point is....it goes against the Word as does verga's claim that God came into existence.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,

13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Hebrews 10:11-14 NASB

[MHGinTN]

How many times was the brass snake placed upon the pole for the Israelites to look upon it to receive healing? what blasphemy did the Israelites fashion from the event of the brass snake? Hundreds of years after Moses made the snake and the Israelites who place faith in the healing, the Israelites were making little copies and offering sacrifices and prayers to their little brass snakes. It was one of the blasphemies Hezekiah had to clean out when he became King of Israel. He even destroy the original, which must have still exist bit which he called merely a lump of brass.

Do you have any clue why Jesus called Nicodemus's attention to that event from so long ago, an event which was without ANY explanation in all of the Jewish scriptures or oral traditions until Jesus explained it to Nicodemus? Do you realize what was the blasphemy the people were committing making little brass snakes and offering prayers to it and sacrifices to it?

[maryz]

Some catholics have called it a re-sacrifice so i use their language. You call it the same sacrifice.

Me and the Baltimore Catechism. I never heard or read of a Catholic calling it a "resacrifice," maybe a "re-presentation," which some erroneously misread or mistype as "representation."

[ealgeone]

Either way it goes against the Word.....as does so much of Catholicism.

[JAKraig]

You said:
They are three separate but Equal persons. They are three persons with one nature. This nature is fully Divine. This means that all three are omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (all knowing).

________________________________________________

I have trouble accepting this. They cannot all three be omnipotent or one would not have power over the others.
They cannot all be omniscient if one of them knows something the other does not know, such as when the end of the world will be.

[maryz]

Thanks for your . . . opinion.

[MHGinTN]

If you believe Jesus performed actual miracles then it follows such occurrences were sourced in the ‘seed’ which remained within Him ... He IS God with us. All we are able to see of God is where He intersects our limits well, as Jesus. [John 14] The Bible says that GOD made Himself a bit lower than the Angels, to come into our limits well to teach us and sacrifice Himself for us. Let me explain that the following way:

If you are a three spatial dimension being and you emptied yourself of one of the dimensions, say height, what could you sense of a three dimensional object in your two dimensional state of only length and width?

[ealgeone]

The verse from Hebrews is not an opinion. I continue to see the problem with Catholicism. They don’t believe God has always existed, He has to be sacrificed over and over, and on and on.

[maryz]

And please stop referring to the Bible as “the Word.” In Christian usage, “the Word” is Christ — you know, as in “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” etc., etc. You can’t justly take offense at being accused of bibliolatry if you equate the Bible with Christ.

[Kolokotronis]

Are you looking for this: "Ο ΩΝ"

[maryz]

That sounds like it — care to expand? :)

[ealgeone]

There are many passages that refer to the “word of God”.

[Kolokotronis]

Basically it means “The “Being” that created “Beingness””....English is a magnificent language for most endeavors, the Law comes to mind, but not for Patristic Theology.

[boatbums]

A very good explanation Verga, sadly like your post #116 I believe it may be wasted on the philosophically and theologically illiterate.

The question then is did he convince you - a cross between an atheist and agnostic - or was it wasted on you?

[maryz]

How do you pronounce it?

[Syncro]

“...it may be wasted on the philosophically and theologically illiterate”

The majority of the followers of Jesus were not of that class.

They knew you became a Christian through your heart not through your brain.

In that day, the class of elites you seem to be praising were Pharisees whom Jesus roundly scolded for missing the point.

The same is happening today, Catholicism is the new Pharisee elite class of today.

Be careful of promoting and following whitewashed sepultures and dens of vipers

[maryz]

There’s no objection to referring to the Bible as “the word of God.” Just to referring to it as “the Word.”

[Syncro]

LOL Groundhog Day

[Syncro]

Even worse are those that teach that all religions lead to God.

Such as Mother Teresa and many Eastern religions/spiritualpractices