Posted on 04/08/2016 7:34:38 AM PDT by Salvation
Yet, not once do we have record of Peter saying you had to eat the flesh and blood of Christ.
He preached repentance and faith....just like the NT.
Until the catholic can square away the roman catholic assertion of the Eucharist with Hebrews the catholic position remains a false teaching.
Stop hanging the pieces back up.
I have a feeling, that when the veil was torn in two, the Pharisees sewed it back up again, thereby continuing their resolve to establish their own righteousness. We don't see anyone doing that today, do we? 😇
Taking shape 300 years AFTER the crucifixion simply means they were not practiced that way by the Apostles.
At first, they spread through word of mouth
Simply means you are back-filling this story with things that are assumed, but cannot be verified objectively.
but within a generation Christians had begun writing about Jesus and about Christian practice, the Eucharist included.
Simply means after the Apostles died, practices they never experienced were formalized and theology drawn tightly.The theology of the Eucharist and its role as a sacrament developed during this period.
This is the clear admission in your post that the theology of the eucharist and the sacramental system were not part of the Apostles teaching nor experience. Nor the sacramental system. Nor any source of grace from any work or practice... until it was "developed" much later in history.
The Apostles warned about this very thing.
This is always how eisogesis must work. Context refutes the careful phrases highlighted.
That is the essence of the sacramental system, wherever it is found - Rome included.
We need refute NOTHING. All we need do is take the entire rest of the Bible, from the Genesis to the Revelation and see that your religion is based upon a blasphemy so large you can't get your head around it! And now you are ignoring everything we post for you to help you awaken to the Truth of what Jesus said in John chapter 14, and Luke Matthew and Mark wrote in their Gospel accounts. The god of your heretical Christianity religion violates the very laws He authored, if we take your blasphemy to be the truth. And the ground under your entire false premise is easily exposed for the heretical garbage it is by just looking at what your religion claims was the first eucharist! You are insisting that Jesus gave His actual real flesh and blood to His disciples as sacrifice to get God-life in them, even before He made the sacrifice of Himself ONCE, for ALL, forever! Surely Catholics are not that stupid! ... And yet, here you are insisting on the magic your religion teaches, spewing blasphemy, pushing 'another gospel, a different Jesus.'!
You spittled out, “In fact, the real presence of the body and blood of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist (transubstantiation), also known as Mass or the Lord’s Supper, was taken for granted in the early Church.” How early, catholic? Polycarp of Smyrna didn’t profane the Passover. He and the ekklesia in Asia Minor celebrated the Lord’s Table with bread and wine on Nisan 14, just as Jesus instituted it as the Remembrance of Him. And they did not commit blasphemy by playing magic games of ‘transubstantiation’, for they were not violating the Laws following their Lord. Polycarp went to Rome in 155AD, TO OPPOSE THE HERESIES ARISING THERE WITH THE INFLUENCE OF MEN LIKE MARCION, A PAGAN CUM ROMAN FOLLOWER.
Are all of the ECF's in 100% accord on the Eucharist being the actual flesh and blood of Christ?
https://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/541/Eucharist_as_Pledge_of_Resurrection_St._Irenaeus.htmlWritten by St. Irenaeus about 185 AD, this excerpt in the link above makes clear the Church’s realistic interpretation of the Eucharist as the risen body of Christ.
And yet catholiciism insists that Jesus gave His flesh and blood and soul and DIVINITY for the disciples to eat BEFORE HE WENT TO THE CROSS, thus before His resurrection. NOW you know why I call it the 'magicsteeringthem'. And sadly, billions of sincere people are being led to the pit of hell by this foolery!
And Jesus taught that where in Scripture again?
And if baptism gives life, then there's no need for eating the body and blood of Jesus.
Or if eating the body and blood of Jesus gives life, there's no need for baptism.
Y'all have too many conditions you say need to be met to be saved and if you don't have one or another, you aren't saved.
Jesus made it a lot more simple. Believe in Him and it's a done deal.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Fixed it.
It's not center to CHRISTIAN belief, it's center to CATHOLIC belief and one does not mean the other. The two should not be conflated as they are not the same thing.
Catholicism does not own the word *Christian*.
Call no man father
Matthew 23:1-12 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
So long as you untether text, from the sacred oral tradition and the practice and beliefs of the early disciples and those by whose authority, an authority given by Christ to Peter and his successors to teach and thus to insure the truth of the written Word of God was made official, you end up engaging in meaningless neophyte exegetics. It is well known that a statement shorn or torn out of its context is a meaningless basis for interpretation.
Interesting that on this issue you differ from Martin Luther.
Maybe it needs reminding what Martin Luther, the Protestant Reformer, said about the Bible? In his “Commentary On St. John,” he stated the following:
“We are compelled to concede to the Catholic Church that they have the Word of God, that we have received It from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of It at all.”
End of all discussion.
Are all of the ECFs in 100% agreement on the Eucharist? Should be a simple yes or no answer.
If they are not, then they are not in complete union with See of Rome. We all know of the schism that occurred in AD 1054
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