Posted on 04/08/2016 7:34:38 AM PDT by Salvation
The Gospel proclaimed on Wednesday of this week included the familiar John 3:16. So familiar is this verse, that many hold up signs or have bumper stickers that simply say, “John 3:16.”
For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son,
so that everyone who believes in him might not perish
but might have eternal life (John 3:16).
It is indeed a beautiful verse, but I would argue that many use it inauthentically by pulling it out from its place within a longer passage. The fuller segment is John 3:16-21, which is as much a passage of warning as it is of consolation and assurance.
Here it is again, along with the remainder of that longer passage:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son,
so that everyone who believes in him might not perish
but might have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world might be saved through him.
Whoever believes in him will not be condemned,
but whoever does not believe has already been condemned,
because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
And this is the verdict,
that the light came into the world,
but people preferred darkness to light,
because their works were evil.
For everyone who does wicked things hates the light
and does not come toward the light,
so that his works might not be exposed.
But whoever lives the truth comes to the light,
so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God (John 3:16-21).
This fuller context has somewhat of a different tone. It sets forth a great drama in which our lives are cast. It amounts to sober assessment of the obtuseness of many human hearts and of the urgent need for us to decide well in life.
Those who merely quote the first verse run the risk of presenting this text as a kind of a freewheeling assurance that all is well and that salvation is largely in the bag, that judgment and condemnation are not a significant factor since “God so loved the world.” And while the concept of faith is included in this first verse, without the larger context the tendency is to soft-pedal the need for repentance and for the obedience of faith. In so doing, the true drama and sober teaching of the fuller text are lost.
The longer passage fleshes the message out and has a balance that the shortened text does not. Here is what Jesus is in effect saying, expressed in more modern language:
As I live, I and my Father do not desire that any should die in their sins or be lost. I have not currently come as your judge but as your savior. I will come one day as the judge of all, but now is a time of grace and mercy extended to you.
But you need to know that you have a decision to make, a decision that will determine where you will spend eternity.
So please listen to me! Open the door to me and let me draw you to the obedience of faith and the beauty of holiness. If you do this, light will dawn for you, for I am the Light and your life will grow ever brighter.
But if you will not repent and come to a lifesaving obedience of faith, your heart will begin to despise me and the light of my glory. You will become accustomed to the darkness and begin to consider the Light (which I am) to be obnoxious, harsh, judgmental, and even cruel. Yes, you will begin to hate me, for I am the Light. You will prefer the darkness because you love your sins more.
Come to your senses and don’t let this happen. You have a decision to make: for the light or for the darkness, for me or for the prince of this world, Satan. Be sober and understand the dramatic choice before you. Your salvation depends on your choice to come to obedient faith in me or to reject me.
And know this: on the day of your judgment, the verdict will not be rendered by me so much as by you. For by then, you will either love the Light or hate it. And I will not force you to live in a light you detest. You will be free to go your own way. It will not be I who reject you. It will be you who reject me.
Be sober. Don’t let this happen. Don’t marginalize or ignore me. Don’t prefer the world and its twisted values and passing pleasures. Your sins will make you hate the light and prefer the darkness. You have a decision to make.
This message is much more complex than that contained in the popular, abbreviated text known as John 3:16. God’s mercy is offered, but the final verdict will center on whether or not we accept it. This message may be less consoling but it is true nonetheless, and only the truth can set us free.
There is a tendency by many to pull out certain verses and isolate them from their context and from the fuller message of the Gospel. The full and authentic Gospel echoes the opening call of the Lord Jesus: “Repent and believe the Good News.”
So yes, John 3:16! But please continue reading. The whole Gospel, please!
Breath taking, isn’t it?
Lots of reading into and just plain assuming.
And it isn't by Elsie or me.
Legatus:Who or what exactly did Mary give birth to then, a cheese danish?
So why are you denying the incarnation and the humanity of Jesus?
See? Two can go there.
Then Jesus lied while on the cross and said that it was finished.,P> If He's still being sacrificed, He never died and therefore forgiveness of sins is not given.
How can you all be participating in killing Jesus, which is hardly something I would glory in or be proud of, when He's alive, risen from the dead and seated at the right hand of the Father?
One is right and the other is wrong. They both cannot be right.
Then Jesus lied while on the cross and said that it was finished.,P> If He's still being sacrificed, He never died and therefore forgiveness of sins is not given.
How can you all be participating in killing Jesus, which is hardly something I would glory in or be proud of, when He's alive, risen from the dead and seated at the right hand of the Father?
FWIW, the sacrifice of the mass MUST result in the shedding of blood of the sacrifice and the DEATH of the sacrifice. That means that Jesus must die again in every mass offered, because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
The nonsense about it being a bloodless sacrifice means that it's just another useless killing.
Because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
And that is exactly what we see you doing.
Trying to trap someone with words to pass judgment on them, which will never be good enough for you anyway, and pigeonhole them in some handy little theological category for future reference.
Catholics show themselves to be such control freaks. Gotta control and label everyone and then put on their holier-than-thouness.
If all sins are forgiven, then why did Jesus give the ability to the Apostles and their successors to forgive sins and to retain sins (some sins that are not forgiven)?
17“And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. 18“But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 3:17-19
Notice Peter did not absolve their sins. He did not say, "I forgive your sins" as contrasted to when Jesus would heal someone He often said "your sins are forgiven." Peter preached the message of repentance which is what Jesus preached.
Notice the repentance wiped away the sins. He did not hear their confession and pronounce them forgiven and then say do this or that as a penance or command any Hail Marys.
Preaching the Gospel to people, as Peter did, and proclaiming forgiveness through Christ is how the sins are forgiven or retained. If one repents, the sins are forgiven...if not they are retained.
It's pretty clear in the NT.
If you notice in the verses just prior to this when the lame man was healed by Peter it was done so in the name of Jesus Christ.
Further, Peter made it clear that the man was healed because of his faith.
But when Peter saw this, he replied to the people, “Men of Israel, why are you amazed at this, or why do you gaze at us, as if by our own power or piety we had made him walk? 13“The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. 14“But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15but put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.
16“And on the basis of faith in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all. Acts 3:12-16
Metmom and Elsie believe in the Trinity. We’re just not going to play the catholic word game.
I’m not going to jump through someone’s hoops at command or demand just to try to appease the unappeaseable.
Cause it’ll keep getting fine tuned and I could spend the rest of my life answering questions and giving answers taht are never good enough.
Forget that.
In catholiciism, drinking of blood is an accepted and indeed commanded ritual, which is anathema to the foundations of Christianity which is the direct child of the pact GOD gave to Abrahama and his descendants, and which was made more stringent by the giving of the laws which Jesus said would never pass away. In catholiciism, the laws they believe have passed away because they presume to drink the blood of GOD at their Mass rituals. That is quite the pagan rite, but that should not surprise anyone who knows how the father of lies works among men.
We could cite aspects of catholiciism's Mariology and show how these also are not an aspect of Christianity. We could enumerate the practice of praying to dead people given the title of Saints by the magisterium, who may not even be Christians! But we know these things and it is more and more apparent that catholiciism is not Christiantiy, so if these sincere people want to believe this 'other religion', this 'other gospel', where one must eat GOD and Drink GOD's blood to get God-life in them, let us not try to argue them that these things do not belong in Christianity, they are aspects of another gospel that is not Christianity anyway!
Their Catholicism is completely UNLIKE Christianity where Jesus told us that believing in Him we have eternal life, then, and He will place Holy Spirit in us then, not after striving for the rest of a life to be worthy of deliverance. God even left for us record of how it works as the scene in Acts on the Day of Pentecost illustrated, and the coming of the Holy Spirit in the house of the Roman Centurion, Cornelius. This system of catholiciism is so clearly anathema to all the Bible instructs that we should understand these people are practicing an 'other gospel'.
John MacArthur has said that catholics are a very ripe evangelism field, but we must be ready to show the dichotomy and use The Bible to back up our assertions. These catholic apologists refuse to hear the Truth, but an average catholic may be no more knowledgeable than a typical Mormon. Behold, the hour is late and the fields are ripe for missions.
Meant to ping you, Bro.
Excellent point regarding the blood.
BOTH relied heavily on Scripture to promote their beliefs. My reaction of total astonishment was that anyone who claims to be a Christian and claims that cults come about because they rely too much on scripture. Unbelievable.
I was too shocked and in too much of a hurry to pay close enough attention to what I copied.
I would think that you would be above such name calling and false statements even with my mistake. Sheeesh...
Hahaha.. great picture. I do skim a lot of the threads, but have just had too many things on my platter for a while to jump in and attempt conversations. I am slow at posting responses.
Sheen lied to you...There is no veil...We as Christians are 'closer to heaven' than anyone who waits for a veil to be lifted at a mass...
That's interesting you call it a prayer and adoration. Others have been saying it's a sacrifice.
Does catholicism have an agreed upon definition of what the Mass is?
Sheen lied to you...There is no veil...We as Christians are 'closer to heaven' than anyone who waits for a veil to be lifted at a mass...
Catholics must either have forgetten or not know this verse:
16“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. John 14:16-17 NASB
Your comments stretch beyond reason and credulity!
“Then Jesus lied while on the cross and said that it was finished.,P> If He’s still being sacrificed, He never died and therefore forgiveness of sins is not given.”
What are you trying to say? As I said before, Jesus is not dying over and over again. It is our offering to God that he completes and changes the offering of the Bread and Wine into His Body and Blood through the actions of the priest.
_______________________________________________________
Your comment: “the sacrifice of the mass MUST result in the shedding of blood of the sacrifice and the DEATH of the sacrifice.”
Why? your comment is not logical.
________________________________________
Your comment: “Because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.”
Do you understand this Bible passage (and it was repeated)?
Or do you not accept that Christ gave the Apostles and their successors the power to forgive sins (or not to forgive sins)?
21* [Jesus] said to them again,l “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22* And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,m “Receive the holy Spirit. 23* n Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” John 20:21-23
Perhaps if you read the footnote you would better understand Hebres10:18
[10:11–18] Whereas the levitical priesthood offered daily sacrifices that were ineffectual in remitting sin (Heb 10:11), Jesus offered a single sacrifice that won him a permanent place at God’s right hand. There he has only to await the final outcome of his work (Heb 10:12–13; cf. Ps 110:1). Thus he has brought into being in his own person the new covenant prophesied by Jeremiah (Jer 31:33–34) that has rendered meaningless all other offerings for sin (Heb 10:14–18).
So the sacrifice of the Mass is the new covenant or new testament as stated in Luke 22:19-20 and Corinthians 1:23-27. Corinthians 3:16-17. indicates that the Church is a Temple of God where there are priestly ministery and sacrifice.
Jesus told the Apostles “Do this (the Eucharist)in memory of me” He did not tell them to write this. The Last Supper was the first sacrifice of the Mass (the new Passover) and completed with the death of Jesus on Friday.
Did you know that St Jerome translates the Our Father prayer in the Vulgate “our daily bread” as “super substantial bread” (or the Eucharist).
So the Mass and the Eucharist have been with us since the Last Supper.
And, distorting, and misrepresenting, and reading into things that simply are not there. Did I miss anything?
That's warped bro, but not unexpected from you.
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