Posted on 03/07/2016 10:29:23 PM PST by Lera
Churches are bleeding to death because of their refusal to love and support the Jewish people.
An internal report from the Presbyterian Church USA, noted for its anti-Israel stance, predicts that it stands to lose 400,000 members over the next five years1. Methodists in the UK, whose leaders passed a resolution boycotting Israel some years ago, have also seen a dramatic decline in numbers, and are now making things worse by advocating a boycott of Cadbury2 - an insult to the memory and considerable legacy of the chocolate family's Christian ethos and significant contribution to Britain's wealth.
Not only that, but one of their number, Richard Cadbury, was a man dedicated to the cause of Jewish mission. After being taken ill with diphtheria during a tour of Egypt in 1899, he was cared for at a Jerusalem hospital (now a school) run by the Church's Mission among Jewish people where, sadly, he died. But out of gratitude for the kindness with which he was treated, he left them a tidy sum of money. This enabled them to extend the facility to include a new ward for the treatment of infectious diseases and employ an extra nurse, thereafter known as the Cadbury nurse.3
Best-selling author Bill Bryson, in his latest book The Road to Little Dribbling4, says he hadn't realized how Quakers5 in 18th century Britain were a bullied and downtrodden minority excluded from politics and academia. But they made their mark in industry and commerce, particularly in banking (Barclays and Lloyds) and the manufacture of chocolate (Cadbury, Fry and Rowntree).
"They and many others made Britain a more dynamic and wealthy place entirely as a consequence of being treated shabbily by it," he writes with his usual penetrating wit. And in that respect they had much in common with Jewish communities of the era. At any rate, Richard Cadbury loved the Jews because of his devotion to Jesus.
Scripture is quite clear that those who bless the seed of Abraham will themselves be blessed, but those who curse them will be judged. (Genesis 12.3) It is perfectly evident that both Methodists and Presbyterians, tragically now more influenced by worldly wisdom than biblical values, are under a curse of their own making. The worldwide blessing brought about by Methodist founder John Wesley's bold proclamation of the gospel (along with his support for Israel) has been lost.
In his notes on Romans, Wesley wrote: "So many prophecies refer to this grand event (of the restoration of Israel) that it is surprising any Christian can doubt of it. And these are greatly confirmed by the wonderful preservation of the Jews as a distinct people to this day. When it is accomplished, it will be so strong a demonstration, both of the Old and New Testament revelation, as will doubtless convince many thousand Deists in countries nominally Christian."6
Remember that he was writing this in the latter part of the 18th century, almost a quarter of a millennium ago, without the benefit of witnessing these very things taking place before his eyes. Yet in our generation we have been immensely privileged to watch God's chosen people, after nearly 2,000 years of dispersion, returning home to their ancient land from every corner of the world.
The biblical prophets foretold all this - in fact half of all Old Testament prophecies relate to Israel's restoration. Followers of Jesus, the Jew, ought to rejoice that, in fulfillment of ancient prophecies, his brothers in the flesh are back in the land. For the Scripture also makes clear that once they have all returned (which is still to happen), Jesus will reveal himself to the entire nation as the Messiah for whom they have long been waiting. And then he will return to rule and reign with all believers - both Jew and Gentile - who have bowed the knee before him.
Israel is not perfect, nor should we expect her to be. For the most part, Israelis are not yet following their Messiah, but Christians who claim to be disciples of Jesus should know better. We must love those whom God loves, including our enemies (Matthew 5.44). You who would boycott Israeli goods (which adversely affects Palestinians too as many rely on Israel for their employment), do you pray for the peace of Jerusalem, as the Bible commands? (Psalm 122.6)
See post 38
As are you, except you continue in his goodness; the Apostle said not to boast against the branches. The Jews are beloved of God.
You read warnings about Gentile peoples being cut off from the tree, but ignore that Paul is warning them from sharing the Jews' fate.
The warning is not to be wise in your own conceit, but fear and to continue in God's goodness, always being merciful to the Jews, who are holy because the root is holy, and are beloved for the fathers' sake.
yes. moral teachings have become (as they always were) inconvenient truths. Soon, some of these wayward “churches” will put up brass child-sacrifice alters in their chancels to Molech/Cronus/Saturn
Jesus said, “Salvation is of the Jews.” Acts 1:8.
Because they had the Prophets, and the holy scriptures, and, before the coming of Christ, theirs was the True Church of God-- at least, of all the true believers among them, not including most of the Pharisees. Christ is not saying that individual Jews-- like Barbara Boxer, George Soros, etc etc., are somehow Sacred and Holy, and we must be in their favor in order to go to heaven.
You are quoting verses that specifically say that they have, in large part, been cut off. You even ignore the first part of that chapter:
"But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." (Rom 11:4-6)
So here Paul gives a historical example where the largest part of the Jews were damned and cut off from grace, save for a small remnant who are saved, not according to their innate "holiness", but according to God's mercy.
And it is only those Jews-- or Gentiles-- who are the children of Abraham inwardly, that are the true children of Abraham and of God.
who are holy because the root is holy
The natural branches that are cut off are not holy; they are condemned, and will be burned.
But as "touching the Election" refers to those Jews who are saved by grace, the "remnant according to Grace" rescued from the general condemnation. The root is Abraham and the holy patriarchs, but the holy branches are only those who are the Elect members of Israel according to the flesh, equal, of course, to the Elect from among the Gentiles. It does not mean that God is somehow going to pluck the Pharisees from hell, because He thinks they are Holy, when in fact He called them vipers, or the general population of Jerusalem, whom He called wicked and unbelieving and doomed to the fires, where they are burning even now. Just a few years after Paul wrote this, Christ's prediction of the Father's wrath against Jerusalem was fulfilled, and somewhere around a million or more Jews were killed in a conflict so horrible that Jewish mothers were cannibalizing their own children just to survive (as predicted and promised), and many more were sold into slavery and dispersed across the whole world, all climaxing with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple on the same day, on the same month, as it was last destroyed by the Babylonians.
The branches are holy because the root is holy, and even those broken off may be graffed into their own olive tree again. Do not boast against the branches.
Who said they are? You are already on shaky ground. Do not make it worse by putting words in my or other critics mouths.
Jesus did not say, “Before me theirs was the true church of God.” He said every word of Mosaic Law is true and unbroken. He put the Jews FIRST in receiving the blessing of salvation.
Salvation, according to Jesus, is of the Jews, the Chosen People. That does not make them better, only singled out.
Will you be among the apostates who condemn the Jews when they acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah?
Christ fulfilled the law and is the heir of all the promises of God. The Jews never fulfilled the law. Nor could the Gentiles if they tried. We become part of Israel by being joined to Christ by faith.
He put the Jews FIRST in receiving the blessing of salvation.
Sure, also they were the first to be judged.
Will you be among the apostates who condemn the Jews when they acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah?
Why would I? The problem isn't "condemning" believing Jews. It's people demanding praise of secular, non-believing Jews, as if there is scriptural demand for it.
There simply isn't.
the Chosen People.
The Elect of all races are the Chosen People. The Jews were set apart from the world for a purpose. That purpose, which is Christ, has now been fulfilled. "There is therefore now no Jew nor Gentile in Christ Jesus."
Now if you want to support Israel for political reasons, no problem. But it is not a Biblical command.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He does not evolve.
**It is, therefore, complete nonsense, from the Christian perspective, to claim that we are obligated to “love” and “bless” Israel, a secular state, merely because of their relation to Abraham according to the flesh, when the promises and scripture they cite apply to the Christians instead.**
Paul shows how to preach the truth in love:
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Romans 10:1,2
**It is also pretty offensive for religious Jews to attempt to lecture to Christians such doctrine that is contrary to our faith in Christ.**
Thin skinned?? There are stores that sell leather coats, pants, shoes, gloves, and even hats.
It is a Biblical command to love the Jews. It is the Second Greatest Commandment. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
Mark, Catholic chapter nineteen, Protestant verses seventeen to eighteen,
Mark, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses twenty eight to thirty four,
First John, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses three to seven,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine
A general commandment to love our neighbors, extrapolated to prove we must support the secular state of Israel? You’re nuts!
The commandments were given to Israel. No one else was even in the picture at the time. The Messiah then extended it to friends of Israel. The parable of the sheep and the goats is quite applicable.
We should love the Jews whether they live in the land of Israel or the Diaspora.
That’s not entirely true. One is not allowed to proselytize someone sixteen or younger. I worked with a Jewish-Christian ministry in Israel and yes I was grilled at the airport but they knew the deal and let me in. I was cursed at and had things thrown at me on the beach in Tel Aviv but many more people were actually attentive and listened as most are full on secular. Someone from Israel has no limitations on their ability to speak for Christ/ Yeshua but a foreigner can as long as it is not a child or under sixteen. Many Christian organizations do not evangelize and if asked hold to a dual covenant position so as to remain in the good graces of the government bureaucrats avoiding visa problems and such. But that position is untenable.
But personally I find supercessionism/ replacement theology to be a curse and both an effect and a cause of spiritual blindness that will have detrimental effects on Christians as it already has in the past due to church tradition and poor theology. It almost becomes a major/ salvation issue if it causes people to side with the world and the powers of darkness and against God in defending one’s idol of false belief and tradition. This will become more apparent as the days get darker and people will be forced to get off the fence and take sides. I realize this issue is extremely divisive - I’ve had many good Christian friends who would be in tears as we disagree on this issue over reform theology and covenant theology in this regard. It remains an issue for this generation. Calvin and people in the past had their issues of the day and when in came to the physical people and nation of Israel and the Hebrew people he had zero comments to make in regards to Romans chapters 9 through 11. He justed skipped over it because it didn’t fit. This generation doesn’t have that luxury. I’ll never understand how so many Christians would literally hold on to in defense of their traditional historical theological positions so tightly as to possibly be found fighting against God’s plans for the Hebrew people and the nations and in fulfillment of the promises made to them at hos prerogative; when even the Pharisees and leaders in Israel regarding the early Christians and apostles were not so blind and stiff necked as many contemporary Christians and Christian leaders. Nothing personal.
No such thing. Replacement theology is a slur for the biblical doctrine that the church has always been the same church in history, and that only the Elect of all peoples are the exclusive children of God, not a secular state.
That’s not entirely true. One is not allowed to proselytize someone sixteen or younger.
Maybe, but in practice people are arrested and deported for speaking freely about Christ in Israel:
"An Israeli immigration judge has ordered the deportation of a Messianic Jewish man from England who was arrested last week for taking part in an evangelistic event in southern Israel... According to his wife, Alison Barnett, six immigration control officers took him from Be'er Shiva, 125 kilometers (78 miles) south of Jerusalem, to an immigration office in Omer, just outside of the city. He was held there for several hours without charge, then transferred to an immigration-holding unit of a prison in Ramle, near Tel Aviv. He spent four days in jail before his court hearing.
"As an Israeli, I have been proud that our country allows for freedom of religion," he said. "Yet those who seized Barry and took him to prison have done a shameful thing." According to Sered, the presiding judge ruled that Barnett was not allowed to engage in "missionary activity" while in Israel.
"They did not really give a reason why they detained him," Sered told Morning Star News. "All they said is that he was doing 'missionary activity.' That is correct, he was doing missionary activity, and that is legal to do in Israel."
The reason the state of Israel gave for his deportation, he said, was that Barnett was engaging in missionary activity and not regular tourist activity on a B2 tourist visa.
"But the global ethics code for tourism, which the state of Israel signed and even advertises on its own Ministry of Tourism Web page, states that tourism for the purpose of exchanging religious beliefs is not only valid but also should be encouraged," Sered said. "Therefore, his deportation and arrest by the state of Israel was done without a real legal cause."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2013/november/israel-orders-deportation-of-jews-for-jesus-missionary.html
We all know there's no crime for religious Jews to proselytize anyone they want, but they'll find any pretext to get rid of a Christian. It's just a sad fact of that country.
he had zero comments to make in regards to Romans chapters 9 through 11. He justed skipped over it because it didn’t fit.
Those chapters prove that "not all Israel is Israel," but "the children of the promise" are the heirs of God. Whoever just skipped right over them was either painfully ignorant of his own theology, or else you're exaggerating, having never debated anyone in your life on what is clearly taught in scripture.
I was referring to John Calvin - author of the Institutes of Christian Religion. In Calvin’s verse by verse commentaries of the Bible he skips Romans 9 through 11.
“having never debated anyone in your life on what is clearly taught in scripture.”
I don’t mean to get rub you wrong but I find this statement really condescending and ignorant at the same time.
So basically you don't even know what you're talking about and are reporting something you heard on some stupid website without verifying it yourself. Here is Calvin going verse by verse from Romans 9 to 11, and, in fact, the entire book, here:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom38.i.html
Even without bothering to look, it's such a stupid claim. The best evidence for Calvinism is in Romans 9. Why would Calvin skip it? It's so stupid that you'd take this claim at face value.
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