What Does It Mean to Be an Enemy of the Cross?

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 02-22-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Elsie]

Aye!

[boatbums]

The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. (2 Timothy 2:24-26)

This is why we do it.

[Elsie]

5/6; Nana...

[boatbums]

I seem to remember you being specifically ordered by the RM to start including the references in your Bible passages because you had the habit of pasting verses from several books/chapters together that often made them say something that they didn’t say causing confusion.

[boatbums]

The solution to such a seeming dilemma is to read the text as it is, with JESUS identifying the cup contents as wine, fruit of the vine, demonstrating the sacred metaphor for His disciples. This reading then does not contradict the LAw and aligns with the vast majority of scriptures where Jesus used metaphor to confound the chasers after signs and the twisters, but then clarified the teachings for His faithful disciples.

What seems to keep being missed is that the Council of Jerusalem reiterated the ban of drinking blood for Christians. There was no exception made for when the Lord's Supper was observed.

[boatbums]

Protestant" is a self-identification of a certain set of communities of faith. Protest less and you won't be deserving of the name. I address those who do.

You have stated on the RF that you consider EVERYONE who is a Christan is a "Protestant" if they don't identify as Catholic. Has your mind changed?

[boatbums]

Clement of Alexandria wrote,

Further release from evils is the beginning of salvation. We then alone, who first have touched the confines of life, are already perfect; and we already live who are separated from death. Salvation, accordingly, is the following of Christ: For that which is in Him is life. John 1:4 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears My words, and believes in Him that sent Me, has eternal life, and comes not into condemnation, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24 Thus believing alone, and regeneration, is perfection in life; for God is never weak. For as His will is work, and this is named the world; so also His counsel is the salvation of men, and this has been called the church. He knows, therefore, whom He has called, and whom He has saved; and at one and the same time He called and saved them...

As nurses nourish new-born children on milk, so do I also by the Word, the milk of Christ, instilling into you spiritual nutriment..."Wherefore also I have given you milk to drink," he says; meaning, I have instilled into you the knowledge which, from instruction, nourishes up to life eternal. But the expression, "I have given you to drink" (ἐπότισα), is the symbol of perfect appropriation. For those who are full-grown are said to drink, babes to suck. "For my blood," says the Lord, "is true drink." John 6:55 In saying, therefore, "I have given you milk to drink," has he not indicated the knowledge of the truth, the perfect gladness in the Word, who is the milk? And to this meaning we may secondly accommodate the expression, "I have given you milk to drink, and not given you food, for you are not yet able," regarding the meat not as something different from the milk, but the same in substance. For the very same Word is fluid and mild as milk, or solid and compact as meat. And entertaining this view, we may regard the proclamation of the Gospel, which is universally diffused, as milk; and as meat, faith, which from instruction is compacted into a foundation, which, being more substantial than hearing, is likened to meat, and assimilates to the soul itself nourishment of this kind.

Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: Eat my flesh, and drink my blood; John 6:34 describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise, by means of which the Church, like a human being consisting of many members, is refreshed and grows, is welded together and compacted of both—of faith, which is the body, and of hope, which is the soul; as also the Lord of flesh and blood. For in reality the blood of faith is hope, in which faith is held as by a vital principle. And when hope expires, it is as if blood flowed forth; and the vitality of faith is destroyed. ” (Clement of Alexandria, The Paedagogus, Book I; http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/02091.htm)

Tertullian:

Now, because they thought His discourse was harsh and intolerable, supposing that He had really and literally enjoined on them to eat his flesh, He, with the view of ordering the state of salvation as a spiritual thing, set out with the principle, “It is the spirit that quickens;” and then added, “The flesh profits nothing,”— meaning, of course, to the giving of life. He also goes on to explain what He would have us to understand by spirit: “The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” In a like sense He had previously said: “He that hears my words, and believes in Him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but shall pass from death unto life.” John 5:24 Constituting, therefore, His word as the life-giving principle, because that word is spirit and life, He likewise called His flesh by the same appellation; because, too, the Word had become flesh, John 1:14 we ought therefore to desire Him in order that we may have life, and to devour Him with the ear, and to ruminate on Him with the understanding, and to digest Him by faith. (On the Resurrection of the Flesh, Chapter 37; http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0316.htm)

And Augustine on "Rule for Interpreting Commands and Prohibitions" states,

24. If the sentence is one of command, either forbidding a crime or vice, or enjoining an act of prudence or benevolence, it is not figurative. If, however, it seems to enjoin a crime or vice, or to forbid an act of prudence or benevolence, it is figurative. "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man," says Christ, "and drink His blood, you have no life in you." John 6:53 This seems to enjoin a crime or a vice; it is therefore a figure, enjoining that we should have a share [communicandem] in the sufferings of our Lord, and that we should retain a sweet and profitable memory [in memoria] of the fact that His flesh was wounded and crucified for us. Augustine On Christian Doctrine (Book III, cp. 16) — http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/12023.htm

[af_vet_1981]

Is that what you recall ? Well, I suppose you are a hostile witness. Perhaps it was a continual dropping on a very rainy day by certain busybodies that led to a selective enforcement of an existing rule, or perhaps there is one standard for all. Feel free to ping the RM to see if the rule applies to everyone equally.

When quoting a source, e.g. a website, article or book – be sure to include sufficient source information for the moderators to enforce copyright restrictions.

[af_vet_1981]

Never, fella. The disciples at the Last Supper were all Jews, still under /Davidic Covenant, and ordained to observe Seder, Jesus not yet having fully fulfilled The Law. The wine could only be at that point a symbol of The Blood of the New Covenant. There was no overlap of the two. And People of The Way, the Company of the Committed were not denominated "Christians" until long after, in the Antioch of Syria. So your question has no foundation and is irrelevant.

So it is your position that all the disciples who actually knew the Messiah are Jews and not Christians (who originated much later in Antioch of Syria as mentioned in the book of Acts). Further, you assert there was no overlap and yet the line of demarcation seems to be Antioch or perhaps the crucifixion. However, that feast of Shavuot occurred after not only the death of the Messiah, but his resurrection and Ascension as well.

The reality is the one holy catholic apostolic church bound new rules, feast days, and calendars for Christians to differentiate them from those still followed by Jews in all their generations. This includes the memorial of that special Passover in the daily Mass.

[MHGinTN]

Your thorough posts regale my hungry soul, and I feast upon the Word.

[MHGinTN]

Well and truly stated

[MHGinTN]

I recall an exchange we were having in which I failed to cite book, chapter, and verse on *I recall* two posts, and the RM reminded me to include them. But it may have been that we had both failed to give citation. It was on the thread where I complained of bad eyesight which made the small blocks of blue print hard to read. I have a pretty good memory still, and I do not recall the RM addressing you specifically for failing to offer vitiation.

[MHGinTN]

Oops! Here’s another typo for your amusement: vitiation should read CITATION. I had a “v” in citation and the auto correct changed it entirely, to vitiation.

[boatbums]

Amen!

For as high as the heavens are above the earth, So great is His lovingkindness toward those who fear Him. As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us. Just as a father has compassion on his children, So the LORD has compassion on those who fear Him. (Psalm 103:11-13)

[MHGinTN]

You asked, "Do you think Christians are part of the commonwealth of Israel or not ?"

Unfortunately, for my answer to make sense I would use metaphor and simile, citing how We are grafted into the vine, the fruit tree; we Christians are grafted onto the vine from which life flows, as life flows from God The Father Almighty.

On such a vine, as fruit born on the good tree, I would cite The Jews who looked forward to the coming Messiah -Old Testament Saints. And I would call we Christians grafted fruit indeed -New Testament Saints. I might even point tot he Saints who will come out of the Tribulation -Tribulation Saints. I would also call attention to The Bride of Christ as drawing Life from the Life in the vine. I might even cite Paul's teaching on how gentiles are grafted onto the Tree of Israel, and our being by faith sons of Abraham.

But alas, since catholic apologists have little grasp of metaphor and simile, and cannot draw full sustenance from the Parables of Jesus, I will not do that, though there are so many more ways to explain such a simple gaining of Life from the source of Life, through Whom and by Whom were all things made that were made, and has shown us His ongoing plan as dispensations of His Grace expressed in different dispensation ages.

So, sorry, I cannot help you further.

[kinsman redeemer]

It can be called the Lord's Supper also.

That's mighty kind of you.