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What Does It Mean to Be an Enemy of the Cross?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 02-22-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 02/23/2016 8:17:35 AM PST by Salvation

What Does It Mean to Be an Enemy of the Cross?

* February 22, 2016 *

2.22blog

In the epistle for the Second Sunday of Lent (Phil. 3:17-4:1), St. Paul laments those whom he calls enemies of the cross of Christ: For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ (Phil 3:18).

What does it mean to be an enemy of the cross? And how do people end up in this condition of being inimical to the very thing and the very One who alone can save them? St. Paul not only laments the situation, but shows how they get into this condition. He does so in a very succinct way, in one verse, as we shall see below.

But first, let's rescue the word enemy from too narrow an understanding. In modern (American) English the word "enemy" tends to be associated with a distant foe, perhaps one with missiles aimed at us or armies ready to conquer us. It is often reserved for those who threaten our life or are opposed to us in the most extreme ways. In practice it is considered almost impolite to refer to difficult people who oppose us in some way as enemies.

Enemy comes from the Latin inimici. And while inimici is best translated "enemies," its roots are in (not) + amicus (friend). So our enemies are those who are not our friends, who oppose our values, who do not wish us well or stand ready to assist us.

This understanding helps us to grasp that enemies may be very close to home, not merely on distant shores. Enemies are not just those who plot the most serious hostilities against us. Thus, when Jesus tells us to love our enemies He has more in mind than just a distant group in some foreign land. He is also referring to those who are near--even within our own families--who are not friendly, who oppose us or the things and people we value.

So when St. Paul speaks of those who are enemies of the cross of Christ, he is not just referring to those who go around tearing crucifixes off walls or demanding that crosses be removed from public property. In his very brief description, St. Paul emphasizes an opposition that escalates from mere worldliness to the outright idolatry of comfort and pleasure. Indeed, if we take St. Paul seriously and are honest with ourselves, some of us who have crucifixes in our homes and march in processions with the crucifix before us as we sing "Lift High the Cross" might find that we are in some opposition to the cross.

So let's take a deeper look at St. Paul's description of the enemies of the cross of Christ. St. Paul describes the inimical stance of some in a fourfold way: Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things (Phil 3:19).

St. Paul, like many ancient authors, states the result first, followed by the causes. Because that is not the usual way to present a point of view, in the reflection that follows I am going to reverse St. Paul's order. By reversing his order, I will try to show how things can escalate so that one can become an enemy of the cross.

The text says, For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things (Phil 3:18-19).

St. Paul describes the escalation that can make a person more and more an enemy of the cross of Christ.

I. Foolish Preoccupations -- The text says that the enemies of the cross are characterized by having minds set on earthly things.

Of the threefold origin of temptation (the world, the flesh, and the devil), the world is understood not so much as a physical place in which we live, but as a mindset, a collection of thoughts, priorities, premises, values, and goals that are opposed to God and His Word. The fundamental values and priorities of this world include the amassing of possessions, power, prestige, and pleasure. Goals such as autonomy and instant gratification, and views rooted in materialism, secularism, anthropocentrism, secular humanism, utilitarianism, and utopianism are emphasized.

There are many in this world who not only accept these flawed premises and values, but also advance them. They do this because when one follows the world's agenda, one is frequently rewarded with wealth, access, popularity, and approval.

But we were not made for these things. The finite world cannot satisfy the infinite desires that are within us. The world may well grant us temporary comforts and benefits, but in the end it takes everything back and assigns us to a stone-cold tomb.

For this reason, having our minds set on earthly things is a foolish preoccupation. Scripture says,

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life--is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever (1 John 2:15-17).

In a world that tells us to "scratch where it itches," there is going to be a cross of self-denial and of trusting God, who teaches us that we are made for more than mere trinkets. The world and devil promise pleasure now and then send you the bill later. The Lord speaks to sacrifice and discipline now and points to the fruits and blessings that come later.

To refuse this and insist exclusively on pleasure now is to become an enemy of the cross of Christ, who warns us to refuse to give our hearts over to the false promises and passing pleasures of this world. We are to crucify our excessive passions and desires (Gal 5:24). We are not to conform to the pattern of this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of our mind, so that we may be able to test and approve what God's will is (Rom 12:2).

Historically, this has meant the cross and suffering for Christians who live this way. The world and the consensus it desires (and often demands) does not take lightly the rejection inherent in true Christianity. The long legacy of persecution and hatred of Christians demonstrates this. It is one thing to choose to live our values in a personal way, but it is quite another to stand opposed (as we must) to the excesses and errors of the world and to seek to snatch others from its illusions and false promises. Marketers, industrialists, politicians, advocacy groups, ideologues, and the like all depend on a widespread "buy-in" in order for their products, projects, and schemes to advance. If we are not easily manipulated by the fears, anxieties, and guilt that the world uses to separate us from our love and loyalty to God, and our basic sense of truth, we are "off-message." We must, therefore, be silenced, either by pressure to conform or through shame. And if these do not work, then persecution: the cross.

But Scripture warns us that such crosses must be endured. Jesus says, If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you (John 15:19-20). And St. James adds, You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God (James 4:4).

Many Christians find resisting the world and its errant demands a cross too difficult to bear. It is easier to cave in to the world's demands, to "go along to get along." This can be done in a thousand little ways through small and growing compromises, or in larger, clearer ways in which one denies truths of the faith in order to receive the praise of men and the blessings that come with conformity to the ways of the world.

To the degree that this happens in our life, we subtly and increasingly become enemies of the cross of Christ. We refuse the self-denial that is necessary and foolishly set our mind on worldly things, which can neither save nor satisfy.

II. Festive Perversions -- The text says of the enemies of the cross that they glory in their shame.

As people deepen their alliance with the ways of the world, their initial compunction is gradually and steadily eroded by rationalization and by surrounding themselves with teachers who tickle their ears (2 Tim 4:3). St. Paul speaks of those who, on account of their sinfulness, suppress the truth. Claiming to be wise, they become fools as their senseless minds are darkened (Rom 1:18, 21).

And as the darkness deepens, not only do they move further away from repentance, but they actually glory in their shame. Of their lack of shame over sinful acts. St. Paul says, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them (Rom 1:32).

And thus today we live in times of "gay pride" parades and the celebration of "gender diversity." Further, there are movies that glorify mob violence and political corruption and glamorize all sorts of evil. Some forms of music celebrate rebellion, hatred of authority, and misogyny. "Greed is good" was the theme of a movie about Wall Street in the late 1980s.

Being an enemy of the cross of Christ deepens in this stage. Not only are the crosses of self-control, self-discipline, and living within limits set aside due to human weakness, but now there is a prideful "doubling-down" in which one declares that what God calls sin ought instead to be celebrated.

This gradually becomes an outright mockery of the cross of Christ because it would seem to say that Jesus died for nothing, that the sins He died to save us from are not only not sins but are actually things worth celebrating.

These enemies of the cross see any limits as unreasonable. And if this weren't bad enough, as their inimical stance to the cross deepens they celebrate their rejection as a virtue of which to be proud. Their glory in their shame is a twisted and deformed version of tolerance; anyone who does not join in their celebration is guilty of one of the few sins left in their worldview: intolerance. Traditional biblical morality now becomes a form of hate, of intolerant bigotry.

This leads to a de facto rejection of God, at least the true God of Scripture:

III. Fallen Passions -- The texts says of the enemies of the cross, their god is their belly.

At some point the enmity toward the cross grows deep enough that the passions and pleasures of the world reach a godlike status, and indulging them becomes in effect a form of idolatry. All human beings struggle at some level with unruly passions and desires. But as long as we struggle and engage in the battle we are still clinging to the cross. Having rejected the cross by outright glorying in their shame, enemies of the Cross now begin to imbue their sins with a kind of godlike quality.

We know how easily money can become like a god to some; they give their whole life over to its acquisition. For them it is the most worthy and valuable thing they have. It is at the center, where God properly belongs.

In the sexual arena the idolatry is more subtle, but it is still evident in the way some talk. Consider that many today attribute their sexually irregular state to God Himself. They say, "God made me this way" and speak of sins and sinful desires as a gift from God. Some equate their desire with the very voice of God; the simple fact that they have a desire must mean that God put it there, and if God put it there it must be good.

In this way a fallen and disordered desire is thought to come from the very voice and will of God, and should therefore be accorded the reverence and obedience due to God Himself.

In this third stage, those who entertain such notions have entered idolatry's clutches. In effect, they reinvent God and ignore His actual revelation in Scripture and Sacred Tradition. But a reinvented god is not the one, true God, and to worship and obey such a false god is idolatrous.

IV. Final Place -- The text says of these enemies of the Cross: their end is destruction.

Only the true Christ and His true cross can save. Those who stand opposed to the cross embrace a poor destiny indeed. An old litany says, "Sow a thought, reap a deed. Sow a deed, reap a habit. Sow a habit, reap a character. Sow a character, reap a destiny." And so we see how our stances deepen within us, either for or against God.

It is therefore a serious matter to permit enmity for the cross to grow within us in any way. It begins with simple weakness and aversion to the more difficult and narrow way of the cross. Then we begin to surround ourselves with teachers who assure us that our sins aren't all that important or even that we can outright celebrate our sins. This then leads to a growing form of idolatry in which we reinvent and reimagine God, going so far as to call our sinful desires godly. The final stage is destruction, for a fake god, an idol, cannot save us. Only the One true God, who told us to take up our cross daily, can save us.

Beware the tendency to become an enemy of the cross of Christ. Spare us, O Lord, from our foolish tendency to substitute false religion. With St. Paul and all the saints may I be determined to know nothing except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; christians; cross; enemy; msgrcharlespope
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To: metmom; imardmd1; Mark17; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; MHGinTN; boatbums; Cvengr
you never present anything to back up your statements.

I give you the text of the Bible, not my opinions of it.

John 6, the Last Supper, 1 Cor. 11 all support the Catholic understanding and would make no sense all together when read the Protestant way.

521 posted on 02/29/2016 5:11:58 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: metmom
The Catechism rarely explains the Bible verse by verse, but you can read the Catholic teaching in its entirety here:

THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST

This is the collection of patristic literature on that particular verse.

CHRYS. He tries to remove their difficulties in another way, as follows, It is the spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing: that is to say, You ought to understand My words in a spiritual sense: he who understands them carnally is profited nothing. To interpret carnally is to take a proposition in its bare literal meaning, and allow no other. But we should not judge of mysteries in this way; but examine them with the inward eye; i.e. understand them spiritually. It was carnal to doubt how our Lord could give His flesh to eat. What then? Is it not real flesh? Yes, verily. In saying then that the flesh profits nothing, He does not speak of His own flesh, but that of the carnal hearer of His word

AUG. Or thus, the flesh profits nothing. They had under stood by His flesh, as it were, of a carcass, that was to be cut up, and sold in the shambles, not of a body animated by the spirit. Join the spirit to the flesh, and it profits much: for if the flesh profited not, the Word would not have become flesh, and dwelt among us. The Spirit has done much for our salvation, by means of the flesh.

AUG. For the flesh does not cleanse of itself, but by the Word who assumed it: which Word, being the principle of life in all things, having taken up soul and body, cleanses the souls and bodies of those that believe. It is the spirit, it, then, that quickens: the flesh profits nothing; i.e. the flesh as they understood it. I do not, He seems to say, give My body to be eaten in this sense. He ought not to think of the flesh carnally: The words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life.

CHRYS. i.e. are spiritual, have nothing carnal in them, produce no effects of the natural sort; not being under the dominion of that law of necessity, and order of nature established on earth.

AUG. If then you understand them spiritually, they are life and spirit to you: if carnally, even then they are life and spirit, but not to you. Our Lord declares that in eating His body, and drinking His blood, we dwell in Him, and He in us. But what has the power to affect this, except love? The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, which is given to us.

Catena Aurea John 6

522 posted on 02/29/2016 5:28:56 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: imardmd1

No problem whatsoever. I took it as you speaking for yourself.


523 posted on 02/29/2016 5:31:36 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: imardmd1; metmom
For the truly regenerated follower of Christ, salvation/justification precedes and provokes sanctification

That is not the Catholic teaching though so you cannot say that I moved the goalpost. Sanctification is the process of drawing closer to Christ both in faith and in works, which results in salvation at the time of death.

524 posted on 02/29/2016 5:34:22 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: lupie

The distinction you are missing is, who interprets the Law? The Jewish interpretation of the Jewish Law was that putting oneself at the right hand of God as His son is blasphemy. The Christian interpretation takes into account that Christ is god, but the Sanhedrin did not know that.


525 posted on 02/29/2016 5:36:39 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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Comment #526 Removed by Moderator

To: Syncro; imardmd1; Elsie; Mark17; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; MHGinTN; boatbums
The Eucharist is not used in the Gospel directly, even though a related word is spoken by Jesus at the Last supper:

και δεξαμενος ποτηριον ευχαριστησας
And having taken the chalice, he gave thanks
(Luke 22:17)

Yes, the Last Supper is the first Eucharist. It can be called the Lord's Supper also.

527 posted on 02/29/2016 5:47:46 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Elsie
And they fast twice a week; too.

I am sure did. You know Els, ders too much charlatanism goin on out der. 😆

528 posted on 02/29/2016 5:50:02 AM PST by Mark17 (Thank God I have Jesus, there's more wealth in my soul than acres of diamonds and mountains of gold)
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To: metmom; annalex; verga
Except the problem is, you never present anything to back up your statements.

All we get from you is your opinion.

This is an interesting comment coming from you. I recall another thread that you were asked by four people to document a claim and just went silent.

How is this different?

529 posted on 02/29/2016 6:47:24 AM PST by Thales Miletus (Men stand up for truth, cowards hide behind ignorance.)
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To: Thales Miletus
Thales Miletus: Men stand up for truth, cowards hide behind ignorance (and I add for clarity, and catholic apologists actually believe without thought every heresy, every blasphemy spewed forth from the magicsteeringthem.)

Particularly noticeable are the haughty, arrogant, minds-like-steel-traps-closed-tightly condescension issuing forth daily from same.

530 posted on 02/29/2016 7:13:57 AM PST by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: MHGinTN
Particularly noticeable are the haughty, arrogant, minds-like-steel-traps-closed-tightly condescension issuing forth daily from same.

Actually my own personal experience as an agnostic is that the Catholics are the ones that give polite answers to my questions. While several of the Protestants have given polite answers there are a large number that have done nothing but attack me.

This leads me to wonder, if you can't explain your belief, why do you believe it.

531 posted on 02/29/2016 7:28:53 AM PST by Thales Miletus (Men stand up for truth, cowards hide behind ignorance.)
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To: annalex; Springfield Reformer; imardmd1; metmom; Elsie; Iscool; lupie; Tennessee Nana
What Jesus did was precisely the Passover Seder. As the Rabbi present He performed the celebration precisely until the last cup of wine, which He passed to His disciples telling them to drink all of it in RMEMEBRANCE of Him, but He pour out the last portion instead of taking the final drink of it, stating He would not drink of THIS FRUIT OF THE VINE AGAIN until in the Kingdom with them.

Jesus, by catholic heretical reasoning that the chalice contained the Blood of Jesus, was either lying to His disciples calling the cup contents wine but giving them blood, in violation of the Law as recorded in Leviticus (unlikely since He was not yet sacrificed for sin so He would not have made His disciples break the Law), OR Jesus turned the contents back into wine just before He poured the last out and made His proclamation about not drinking the fruit of the vine at that Passover ending. In the latter case He would still have caused His disciples to violate the Law before He went to the Cross as the Lamb of God, in which case He would not be without spot or blemish for the next Day sacrifice of Himself for the sins of the world.

Since we have the words of Messiah Himself calling the cup contents WINE, which is it, catholic? Did Jesus lie to His disciples (or is catholiciism in error calling the contents blood camouflaged as wine), or did Jesus turn the blood back into wine before calling it wine as He poured it out [ wine according to Luke's iteration of the Passover Seder]?

The solution to such a seeming dilemma is to read the text as it is, with JESUS identifying the cup contents as wine, fruit of the vine, demonstrating the sacred metaphor for His disciples. This reading then does not contradict the LAw and aligns with the vast majority of scriptures where Jesus used metaphor to confound the chasers after signs and the twisters, but then clarified the teachings for His faithful disciples.

Catholicism as practiced is not Christianity. It is another religion, a religion in which pagan rites and practices (like imagining the adherents eat the actual body and blood and thus the divinity of the pagan god) are installed over the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ toward humankind. This heretical installation empowers an institution of priests and Bishops and a pope, but does not lead to the narrow gate to Heaven.

As final example, the following assertion is contradictory to what The Bible teaches, yet is at the heart of the catholic religion: "Sanctification is the process of drawing closer to Christ both in faith and in works, which results in salvation at the time of death." post #574
The catholic apologist erringly assigns sanctification as a works based means to deserve salvation at the time of death. God tells us differently in the Bible, that Salvation is the moment we are born from above, followed by His process of sanctifying us during the remaining lifetime of being alive in Christ, as a member of The Body Of Christ.

532 posted on 02/29/2016 7:43:59 AM PST by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: annalex; MHGinTN; Springfield Reformer; daniel1212; metmom; Gamecock
Yeah, right. When protestant charlatans cannot explain plain scripture in front of them....

Doubtful; this is actually a huge symptom of Roman Catholicism. Little things like:

1 Timothy 2:5:
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"

But yet, Roman Catholics pray to Mary to intercede on their behalf... and CCC 969 teaches that Mary is a "Mediatrix". According to that "plain scripture in front of them," Catholics still are taught to believe that Mary is a Mediatrix.

So, please...best not be lobbing any accusations like that around. The Catholic Church has already been hoist on its own petard many, many times.

Hoss

533 posted on 02/29/2016 7:58:41 AM PST by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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To: Thales Miletus
An agnostic today is of the same cloth as those Jesus purposely drove away from Him with literalism when metaphor was the lesson of the day. What is being touted as 'seeking to understand your religious beliefs' by an agnostic is really just trying to add to the gunny sack of excuses to not allow the self to have faith in The Creator of us all, the Lord from Heaven.

Those seeking after signs and twisting the metaphors Jesus gave were looking for what Jesus appeared to give them, an excuse of breaking the law against drinking blood, so they could soothe their consciences for turning away from Him.

534 posted on 02/29/2016 8:17:23 AM PST by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: MHGinTN
What Jesus did was precisely the Passover Seder.

For how many generations have Christians kept the Passover ?

And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.


...
And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof. All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Thus did all the children of Israel; as the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.


Exodus, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses fourteen to fifteen,
and forty three to fifty,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

535 posted on 02/29/2016 8:19:57 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Thales Miletus

In the case of modern catholiciism, the exercise is to soothe the conscience with works unending in this life as substitution for surrendering the will to God’s directing. Once born from above, the new born submits their will for ‘raising up in the way that they should go’ as a child of God. By stopping self from submitting to the new birth, lots of indulgences can continue to be practiced so long as the ‘sin’ is confessed in the booth and the boot-monger issues sufficient hail Mary’s to absolve the guilt. Perhaps that reality of hollow righteousness is why catholic apologists are fond of accusing born agains of ‘saying they believe then doing as they please’. It is a form of recognizing the salvation of God but denying the power thereof.


536 posted on 02/29/2016 8:24:28 AM PST by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: af_vet_1981
You have a penchant for asking some of the stupidest questions, twisting things into duplicities that do not exist so that you can attack the magic thinking you've enjoined.

The Passover Seder is a Jewish celebration. During the 'church age' --that period of time during which God declares there is neither Jew not gentile-- Christians, those members of the Body of Christ, are not celebrating Jewish Seders. In submitting our will to God, being born again from above, we acknowledge that we are incapable of keeping the Law the Jewish celebrations amplify.

This is one core reason why the imagined drinking of the real blood of Jesus and eating the real body of Jesus at catholic Mass is such a blasphemy! WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST, so eating His body in a catholic wafer is nonsensical because We ARE the Body Of Christ by HIS SPIRT in us. By not acknowledging that WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST, catholic mass does not rightly discern the body of Christ thus the priest is feeding not blessing but damnation to the sincere adherents!

We who are born again are celebrating a remembrance of what our Lord and Savior did for us. Eating the bread and drinking the wine offering, we are identifying with the death of ourselves on His Cross, where He sacrificed Himself for us. He went where our sin nature says we should be, but instead, we remember that He went there for us. Thanks be to God. With His resurrection we are assured that the Promises of God cannot be diverted.

537 posted on 02/29/2016 8:38:28 AM PST by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: terycarl
.without the Bible, Jesus certainly would not be a historical figure...He was a kid, born in Israel, a dissident who was executed by the Romans.....disappearing into history....It is through the Catholic Bible that you even know His name.

Finally a Catholic that affirms Scripture is essential for the preservation of the gospel message, while others exalt oral tradition so much that Scripture becomes almost superfluous, except to be abused as needed to try to support RC traditions against "Bible Christians." But of course, there simply was no "Catholic" Bible because the NT church simply was not Catholic, esp. Roman.

Which is basically a invisible church in Scripture, not being a church which looked to the street-level leader Peter as the first of a line of exalted supreme infallible popes in Rome;

over a class of clergy distinctively titled "priests" officiating at the Lord's "Supper" (or tasting) in turning bread and wine in the "real" (neoplatonic)but not bloody flesh and blood of Christ, and offering it as a sacrifice for sins and to be consumed in order to obtain spiritual and eternal life;

and with infant baptism rendering one good enough to be with God, with that basis thus usually requiring postmortem purifying torments to attain entrance into Heaven, and offering indulgence$ to obtain release from it;

and praying to created beings in Heaven, including the only believers in Heaven who are distinctively called "saints," esp. to an almost almighty sinless vestal virgin demigoddess highly exalted far above any other created being;

and either much relying on the sword of men for conformity to doctrine and or requiring implicit assent, or becoming an admixture of proabortion, prohomosexual public members as well as devout, while attacking conservative evangelicals, since the preeminence of Rome is primary.

538 posted on 02/29/2016 8:59:10 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: MHGinTN
You have a penchant for asking some of the stupidest questions, twisting things into duplicities that do not exist so that you can attack the magic thinking you've enjoined. The Passover Seder is a Jewish celebration. During the 'church age' --that period of time during which God declares there is neither Jew not gentile-- male nor female ? ...

It seems to me you really do not have a good answer. Let's go with church age though as that seems closest. I see one plausible explanation. The one holy catholic apostolic church bound that the Body and Blood be celebrated and memorialized daily in the Mass rather than annually in the Passover Seder.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses eighteen to nineteen,
As authorized, but not authored. by King James

... we acknowledge that we are incapable of keeping the Law the Jewish celebrations amplify.

Okay, the Law exposes sin. A Protestant who rejects the Real Presence in Orthodox Christianity could still keep the Passover annually as an everlasting memorial or is one forbidden to protest by his denomination, sect, or pastor ? Do you think Christians are part of the commonwealth of Israel or not ?

539 posted on 02/29/2016 9:14:02 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: annalex
Well, I am neither a "Protestant" nor a "Catholic" but rather an imitator of the commandments given to the disciples by the Lord Jesus Messiah, who showed them how to live it, which they were to teach to their disciples. That would be far from the system that you seem to support. If I find something so serious abut your stated doctrines or traditions that they need correcting, I don't "protest" them -- I reprove them and publicly proclaim them to be misleading or false, from the Scriptural viewpoint, with the Bible superior to any other authority, since it is the infinite infallible Holy Ghost speaking to fallible, finite (hu)man.

That is not the approach to Christianity that your system takes. Most particularly, its hermeneutic is not the literal, historical, grammatical, and cultural, that gives The Christ and His Spirit preeminence, the one employed by true Biblicists, as the Scriptures themselves insist.

No, your approach to translation and interpretation of Biblical texts is established on the Platonic allegorical philosophy worldview, brought into the Christian sphere by the Greek-trained pagan Gentile philosophers, that holds the soulish imaginations of fallible self-serving men superior to that of the plain literal sense of the Bible. They are the group of Catholic aristocracy constituting what is now called the Magisterium, who cast their non-scriptural opinions into the concrete of tradition as dogma, and are mulishly unwilling to change even though the position is absolutely crosswise both to Scripture and to common sense.

Your system indeed is the one doing the "protesting." Y'all protest against and decry literal-historical, common-sense, Biblical interpretation, and consists of charlatans who hold themselves higher in authority than the Holy Scriptures, and hold themselves forth as a "protection racket" to deliver lost souls from Hell based on adherence to their rituals and dogmas.

And anyone who exercises common sense, who is honest, would agree. Your claim about Protestants relying on:

". . . the traditions of men of their own kind they've accumulated in the past few centuries. . . ."

is so phony, when the touchstone of the Reformation was/is "Sola Scriptura," historically not tradition, that you ought to bow your head in shame.

Who do you think you're going to fool with your FR tag line? Only credulous gulls, I would say.

540 posted on 02/29/2016 9:52:08 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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